Please note this transcript was generated by AI - apologies for any mistakes

Pippa Goulden (01:17)
So welcome Rachel to PR Made Simple. How are you?

Rachel (01:20)
I'm so excited to be here. I've been secretly wanting you to ask me to do this since I met you. And then ironically, 'cause you do the just send the email, I email you every week but never sent that email.

Pippa Goulden (01:31)
also I have actually asked you to do it we've just been too busy getting press for you or doing something else more exciting so yes it's good that we're here I'm very excited and no one will

Rachel (01:40)
We've

Pippa Goulden (01:40)
be able to see this but we're both in our leopard print as well so we've got our uniform on

Rachel (01:43)
Yes, we've twinned. Do you

know I had my colours done over the summer, have I told you? And so now I'm fully embracing the new colours. So I'm

Pippa Goulden (01:51)
I love

Rachel (01:52)
a muted autumn, which means leopard leopard and camel, they're all in. Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (01:57)
well I'm too scared to get mine done because it'll tell me not to wear all the things that I like wearing so...

So let's talk about you. Tell us in your own words. I've obviously introduced you but tell us in your own words what do you do?

Rachel (02:10)
What do I do? So I do what I call the difficult stuff. So at the moment what I do is the difficult stuff between people usually at work. So between teams, how do we help them have the difficult conversations? How do we help them achieve what they need to?

when the going gets tough, when relationships get a bit mahd, when people stop connecting with each other and there could be a whole gamut of reasons for all of that happening. So I will go in and like a sponge soak all of that up and then be able to work with them all to say, right, how are we going to make this really productive? And what is and everybody's difficult stuff is different.

Pippa Goulden (02:49)
Yeah, God, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the rooms that you go in and sort out.

let's take a step back, you've got the most fascinating story behind how you got to where you are today, there's so many different threads and I remember when we first started working together thinking there's some good stuff here because you haven't had a linear career have you? Tell us about it.

Rachel (03:11)
No.

So I've always had the philosophy of just say yes. Like, just go with your gut of what feels right in the moment. There's never been an overarching strategy, you know. I was never like, I'm going to go to uni, then I'm going to join this grad scheme. what I did was the short version is I got expelled from school at sixteen. That's really important to me. It's actually important in my career stuff because you don't have to have

you know, done really well at school, have to have this glorious transition into e you know, s higher education to achieve. So I got expelled from school at sixteen, went to work in nurs nursing home. Before that went to college and did some modules, which is actually quite important because one of the modules I did was in the theory of counselling and psychotherapy and we'll come back onto that later. In law and in painting and decorating. I mean, who knew? just fancied it. but didn't last because I just wasn't right

know

for that. So went very practical, went and worked in an old people's home as a care assistant, which I absolutely loved. from there I went eventually back to college and did community work and community work and kind of what you would now know as social care to an e extent. and did that and then took a massive detour into politics. So got involved in politics.

And then got elected as an FE kid to be vice president of the National Union of Students nationally, representing all the Posh to me University kids. And then I moved to London from Edinburgh and never went home. And I then went from NUS into Parliament to work for an MP, then became the youngest ever National Women's Officer of the Labour Party. I was 21 at that time, 21, 22. Then from there went to work for a trade union.

And then from the trade union I thought I need to earn some money. So I went to the trade body that represents the pharmaceutical industry in the UK. Then from there to a pharma company, from there to the NHS and you know, here I am, had my own business for ten years. So I've just followed the like what's felt right at the time.

Pippa Goulden (05:19)
amazing and I guess now where you are all of the sums of your experiences in all those different on those different paths gives you that ability to kind of really understand what's going on in the rooms that you're in I guess.

Rachel (05:34)
Completely. So I

can be just as at home in a in a nursing home working with care workers who are on, you know, just marginal the minimum wage or marginally more as I can be in the Supreme Court because I have represented organisations through legal proceedings before, you know, so there's and everywhere else. So it I've got a real I can blend it's funny actually, we walk down our street and

many we've got friends who are our neighbours. This is relevant. We've got friends who are neighbours. Loads of our neighbours don't ever recognise me. My husband's like, How

Pippa Goulden (06:11)
Why's that?

Rachel (06:12)
is that? They don't say hi to you. It's dead weird. And I said, 'cause I've always had the ability to just blend in because when you're doing my job, you're not the story. You blend into other people's stories to work out what's going on between all of them.

Pippa Goulden (06:28)
That is so interesting. So you leave your ego at the door,

Rachel (06:31)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (06:32)
which actually is probably why you're so good at doing your own PR because you have cottoned on very quickly to the fact that it's not about you. It's about your expertise and helping the journalists to do their job or what the audience wants to hear. And that's why I think you're very good at finding those right opportunities and knowing what the angles are for you

to pitch.

Rachel (06:53)
Yeah.

I'm pretty instinctive about that. And I also the flip side of me is I'm really comfortable speaking. So all the pot political stuff. Stick me in a room, give me a thousand people and a microphone, and I absolutely love it. And I'm very comfy. I mean I'll never say no to an interview either 'cause I'm really comfortable. I'm very comfortable on radio. I I'm comfortable on tele, comfortable in the news, love radio. So there's it's

You know, so I'm not afraid of any of that. But that's through training from twenty years ago.

Pippa Goulden (07:23)
I was going

to say, where has that come from? Is that something that you're born with or is it something that you've, like the muscle that you've practiced or a combination of both?

Rachel (07:36)
I certainly wouldn't say I was born with it, but remember I was very young when I got involved in the National Union of Students and very involved in politics. And so I, you know, and back in those days, in the late nineties, you know, in US conference where I got elected would be well over a thousand people in that hall for a start. So you used to have to be able to hold your own, hold a line, debate, articulate, sell yourself. and I was vice president welfare, so did a lot of things where there might have been

outbreaks like meningitis or there might have been a student suicide or there might have been a big health scare, something happening for the student population in the ki in the United Kingdom. And I'd be expected as a at a quite a young age to articulate that in national news. So I was trained, you know, I was

Pippa Goulden (08:21)
Mm.

Rachel (08:21)
trained, I went for media training and I went, you know, I remember doing a really old thing in my in my political world bit

of going into what was Millbank Tower where well I mean it still is Milbank Tower but you know the media centre at Millbank Tower and being trained by some people who are now very, very famous kind of politicians who weren't quite as famous at the time. And they sat in the front row and the one of them said to me, Can you give me six minutes on golf? I know nothing. And they just heckled and I did wasn't allowed to leave the lectern.

And it was really, really good training 'cause I will never ever be I'm I just I'm not intimidated by a microphone or a lecture stage ever. I can hold my own enough to get on, do it and get off.

Pippa Goulden (09:07)
Yeah, that's amazing. Can I just say for anyone listening though, you will never really be in that situation where you're being heckled for six minutes, so don't panic.

Rachel (09:13)
No, don't worry. I

don't come on here and scare everybody. But it's quite interesting how they does it, you know, 'cause I was like, what, nineteen? Nineteen, twenty?

Pippa Goulden (09:18)
Yeah, yeah.

I was doing the PR for a well-known brand and the founder had quite an ego and we got him some media training and the media trainer deliberately said his name wrong. And the reaction that he had was so amazing. It was just like, it was all caught on camera because the whole point was that they then would watch

Rachel (09:42)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (09:42)
it back.

It was just, it was quite fun sitting behind the scenes watching it all happen. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (09:48)
But that stuff is really important to simulate, I think. So if

people who are listening have their own business and they are thinking about what do they need to do to prepare themselves for PR and authority building,

Pippa Goulden (10:02)
Yeah.

Rachel (10:03)
thinking about the simulations you can put yourself into in safety is really important. And I have done that a lot in my I've been lucky enough to do that. And I don't do anything lightly, whilst I'm quite free with it and I'm quite comfortable with it.

Everything is also what I say, I own every word and it's always very, very well thought through. and I think that's quite important.

Pippa Goulden (10:21)
Yeah. Yes, and I've really noticed

that with you in the way that you work and approach your PR is you're incredibly considered and deliberate, which means that you get very specific results. Whereas, you know, other people might just be like, let's just wing it and see what happens. mean, not under my watch, because we would always go back to a strategy. But I think it's been really incredible watching you do that. And I guess that links back to.

this focus that you have or the training that you have around feeling very confident in what you want to say and what you want to get known for really.

Rachel (10:58)
I'm also ve that is entirely correct. I'm also very clear about my own boundaries, very comfortable with who I am. I'm really comfortable with my values. I've had a lot of times in my career when they've been tested in the real world, not in media. I know, you know, you know, with be that with customers, be that with stakeholders. And I I I'm very, very clear about what I am and what I'm not. There are things I will not stages I will never attend.

there are podcast I we've had a conversation, you've suggested something to me and I've just gone, nope, I won't go there.

Pippa Goulden (11:29)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (11:32)
And and that won't be moved when that's the decision because there's a rationale about where it might contravene my own values. But when you know yourself really well, you can then work out what bit of yourself you want to put out there.

Pippa Goulden (11:46)
Yeah, that's really interesting. And what's the work that you do to get to that point?

Rachel (11:51)
So I think it's evolved over

Pippa Goulden (11:52)
Hmm.

Rachel (11:53)
the years, you know, and and you know, Peppa, I do a lot of stuff that is above the radar. So

Pippa Goulden (11:58)
Yeah.

Rachel (11:58)
the stuff where I'm going into organizations to have difficult conversations because the organization is expanding or they're buying out another organization or you know, things are it's the good stuff that's going on. It's difficult stuff, but it's the good stuff. I also do a lot of work that is very much under the radar, the stuff that is difficult and really hard.

And really kind of heartbreaking. You know, so I will work in organisations where harm has been caused. Sometimes I'll work with the survivors and victims of that. Sometimes I'll be working with the teams left after there's been an investigation. What I like the collateral in the organization that's left to kind of build up again. And so my approach, recognizing throughout all of my career, I've been able to.

It's

evolved. It's not something that is taught. It's something that is I would say I'm mo most comfortable now. I'm fifty next year. I'm most comfortable now in articulating that well and being being able to reject the stuff I don't want to be involved in. And recognising now that it is I'm good at what I do. I historically till I met you haven't shouted enough about it actually because I've been too busy doing it.

but also that I have something that I can offer to the conversation.

Pippa Goulden (13:22)
Yeah. So what made you decide to, what was the turning point for you? Because you've got an incredibly established career, a brilliant business. What was that tipping point that made you think, okay, this is my time. I'm going to get myself out there now.

Rachel (13:36)
Do you know what? It was as simple as I kept seeing people who were a lot more rubbish than me getting good coverage

Pippa Goulden (13:45)
Yeah.

Rachel (13:45)
and I know them, right? Or I know of them or I've met them and I was like, how are they in that magazine? How are they on that podcast? Like, they're rubbish. And then I was having one of those like fits of their rubbish in my office one day, and

A bit like everything else I do in life, it was very like, yes, it was d deliberate. It was per it had been percolating, but I hadn't chosen who or how, what my mechanism was going to be. And I was scrolling through LinkedIn and you were advertising one of your free webinars. And I

Pippa Goulden (14:21)
Yeah, that's right.

Rachel (14:22)
just thought, I'll just dial into this. She might she might be rubbish, but I'll just dial in. And you weren't rubbish because I really liked it and I emailed you the second it was finished and said, Can we have a chat?

Pippa Goulden (14:33)
You were literally signed up, weren't you? And I think it was something I remember you saying, I just really like the way you said send the fucking email. I was like, done. We're gonna get on. Yeah.

Rachel (14:40)
Yes. Yeah. Because it was actually the kick up the arse I needed.

Pippa Goulden (14:47)
And it's quite amazing how many people I work with who say,

I am fed up of seeing this person who's not got the experience or who's getting it wrong and they're out there and it's only because they've got the gumption to put themselves forward for stuff that that's the difference between why you're not getting it and why they are and yeah it's a real it can be a real motivator but I think for some people it can also be a you know a thing that they just spend a lot of time thinking about rather than doing anything about it so I'm glad that you actually took the action.

Rachel (15:18)
so am I and and it's it's been really successful. Our we've worked together a year now, haven't we? And it I

Pippa Goulden (15:23)
Mm, yeah.

Rachel (15:23)
think it's been really successful. But it's had its moments. You know, only a couple of months ago I messaged you, didn't I? And I went, I I'm not getting very much peop people get like loads of coverage and I just get the odd thing here, what am I doing wrong? And I'm not doing anything wrong.

I actually have a different approach and a different way of relationship building and authority building. But I needed you as my little sense check there to go, No, you're not doing it wrong. Like there isn't a way to do

it that is

Pippa Goulden (15:50)
Yeah, absolutely.

And actually, I think this goes back to my kind of agency days where you would tell a client that will pay us, you know.

X thousands of pounds a month and we'll get you this much coverage. And so therefore you're having to churn out stuff that is totally irrelevant to the business objectives and the brand and what they're about. And it's actually not going to do anything for it. Everything with you, like I've said already, is really intentional and strategic so that when it happens, it does a huge amount for your business rather than trying to get loads of scrappy bits here and there. It's actually all done with intention, which is the way to do it. You don't need to generate loads

loads of press coverage, you actually just need to get the right PR opportunities in order to build that authority.

Rachel (16:36)
And that is the key word for me, the authority word. And I know that it it's it's one of your like kind of strap lines, it's one of the things that you talk to people about when they work with you. And for me that was like the the moment everything clicked. So

Pippa Goulden (16:48)
Yeah.

Rachel (16:49)
I was able to say, Do you know what, would where do I want to have authority and where do I not care if it's my voice or not?

Pippa Goulden (16:53)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (16:55)
and really being able to hone in on some of that.

Pippa Goulden (16:59)
Yeah.

Rachel (17:00)
I don't get it right all the time, but I'm what I'm really proud of is the relationship that I do have with journalists

Pippa Goulden (17:06)
Yeah.

Rachel (17:06)
They're really strong, they're very trusting.

Pippa Goulden (17:08)
Yeah, and that's, you know, it's remarkable in the year that we've been working together. You know, you had one day where two journalists got in touch with you from different publications because something had happened and they knew that you were the right person to comment on that situation. And, you know, that's amazing to be able to build up those relationships yourself. That's, you know, that's part of it. That's part of being on the agenda of the right people.

Rachel (17:33)
Yeah,

and I do maintain relationships. Journalists will listen to this now and go and she hasn't messaged

Pippa Goulden (17:36)
Mm.

Rachel (17:38)
me for ages, but I try to check in. So,

Pippa Goulden (17:42)
Yeah.

Rachel (17:43)
you know, before coming on this call today, I was having a WhatsApp exchange with a very well known journalist. Yesterday

Pippa Goulden (17:51)
Yeah.

Rachel (17:52)
I was having a WhatsApp exchange with a national editor of a television channel. and they are relationships I've had for a very long time and

Pippa Goulden (18:01)
Yeah.

Rachel (18:01)
keep in with check in with

I spotted this. I have you have you spot so you know, when think about the TV channel one yesterday, literally nothing about my business in this story whatsoever,

Pippa Goulden (18:11)
Yeah.

Rachel (18:13)
but there's something else I'm aware of going on in a different part of the country that is n not in my purview at all. This person is a national editor.

And I was like, have you clocked that this is happening in wherever it was? I think I sa well, I know one of the people involved in it. Do you want me

Pippa Goulden (18:31)
you

Rachel (18:32)
to connect you? Because they've asked me who would be a good journalist to talk to and I trust you, so I've told them to trust you, sort of th you know.

Pippa Goulden (18:39)
Yeah, and that is, it's relationship building. It's all

Rachel (18:42)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (18:43)
about human relationships at the end of the day. So if you've had, if you've got those ins with people and you've developed those relationships, it's just a case of, you know, as you would with anyone in your world, really.

When it comes to this authority building, let's deep dive into this a bit more, because as you know, my whole thing is, know, visibility is not enough, we need to really

Rachel (19:02)
Mm-hmm.

Pippa Goulden (19:02)
get known for what we do. How...

And I obviously know the question of this, but I think it'll be quite interesting for people listening. You deal with some really meaty stuff. How

Rachel (19:11)
Mm-hmm.

Pippa Goulden (19:12)
do you pull out what's relevant from your work to translate that into authority building opportunities for you?

Rachel (19:21)
Pattern spotting.

Pippa Goulden (19:23)
okay.

Rachel (19:24)
So for me it is always about a do you remember those like kaleidoscopes? I'm doing for the listeners, I'm doing a kaleidoscope impression

Pippa Goulden (19:31)
Mmm.

Rachel (19:33)
now. You know where you twist it and it goes into different shapes.

Pippa Goulden (19:36)
Yeah.

Rachel (19:36)
So I am consciously all the time spotting the patterns in all my client work, then spotting the patterns in what I see in the news.

Then spotting the pattern. So just like instinctively I'm pattern spotting all the time and thinking, right, where is this where is this a growing phenomena? Where is this phrase becoming more used? Where is this happening? And just kind of constantly percolating all of that, which will then make and I tend to have always worked at the cusp of things.

So when I worked in the pharmaceutical industry, I was working on personalised medicine, which hadn't wasn't yet a thing in the NHS, now it's everywhere. So innovation and stuff on the cusp. So I'll be like, right, what's the next thing and where do I want to be in relation to it? So what are the patterns that I'm seeing in my work? What are the patterns happening in the world that I want to influence? Where do I, what's the next thing that is going to influence that world in relation to both of those? And where do I want to be in relationship with all of that?

Pippa Goulden (20:40)
Yeah, yeah

Rachel (20:40)
Did that make sense?

Pippa Goulden (20:41)
that makes loads of sense and I think what the key thing to remember with that is is that it takes time

because

Rachel (20:48)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (20:48)
I think and this has been really evident in some of the work that we've done together like it's been some of the work we've done has been really meaty hasn't it like it's

Rachel (20:55)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (20:55)
proper in-depth because it's not out there the stuff that you're seeing isn't necessarily being talked about yet and

Rachel (21:02)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (21:03)
that then makes it hard

There's a topic that we've been really deep diving into and it's taken quite a long time to delve into it, work out what the angles are with it and that kind of thing. And I think other people would have given up.

Rachel (21:18)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (21:19)
you know, because it wasn't landing. Whereas actually you just kept going at it and we kept refining it and changing it and working at how to say it in slightly different ways. And it's landed and you had a meeting with a journalist about it, which doesn't happen to many people. And that journalist can see what you're talking about. And so you've then, because you've got that relationship with that journalist, you've then been able to develop that into something.

And I think the key for that is A, have the courage of your conviction. if you can see something that's really important and needs to be talked about, then you've got to keep going, right? You can't just say, this isn't landing, I'm going to give it up. And the other thing is, is it giving it time?

Rachel (21:52)
Yeah, completely.

Yeah, a hundred percent. So particularly in my work, because my work is predominantly about people being vulnerable in their own workplaces. And if you're vulnerable in your own workplace, that has a level of risk. I don't mean legal risk, I mean emotional risk. It's r got relationship risk to it. So it's not something that people are always comfortable in, in fact they very rarely are.

Pippa Goulden (22:19)
Yeah.

Rachel (22:19)
So for me to then be kind of going all jazz hands to talk about it doesn't sit, it doesn't work for the audience, it does it's not gonna give my buyer faith that I can deliver what they want. P so evidence and data is one aspect of that, but what I bring is something that's more experiential. As a third party who's been sat in the organizations when that difficult stuff has been happening, I can dis describe it.

I can describe the trends, I'm seeing it in multiple organizations.

Pippa Goulden (22:49)
Yeah.

Rachel (22:50)
I can own that w with authority, without exposing anybody that are any of my clients, because I'd never do that. But I can also then really, and this is another thing I'd say to your listeners, like think not just about the relationships you want to pitch to, but the relationships that you want to hold and carry. So I didn't know this journalist that we're talking about. I cold pitched them.

But it was a really honest conversation, which went something like this without breaking, you know, their confidences. I was like, I respect you are a journalist. You yourself are pitching for work to be paid to write articles because that is how you pay your bills and your mortgage. I mean, I was a bit more polite than that, but you're

to me essentially I was like, you know, you've got you've got bills to pay.

Pippa Goulden (23:30)
But yeah, get the point. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Rachel (23:34)
I need to sell my services because I've got bills to pay. I think my intelligence, the stuff that I bring.

might be interesting to you now or at any time in the future. I'm not seeking for an article. I'm not seeking to write anything here. I'm seeking to help you do your job. And if we've got something, a good conversation to have that is mutually beneficial, that helps us all, then let's have it.

Pippa Goulden (23:59)
Yeah, and that's the difference isn't it because you weren't about your own agenda you weren't about

you know, your services, it was about how can I help you to do your job? And that's where it leads to some really interesting, you know, conversations and opportunities for you because you're using your insight. And I think the other thing with that is it's just a reminder that journalists need you to do their job because they don't, they're not on the inside of these boardrooms. They're not seeing all of this stuff. It's a much more equal relationship than I think a lot of people think, isn't it?

Rachel (24:30)
It completely is. And I also think there is an element of I talked before about dealing in vulnerability. For me, all the journalists, yes, they've got a gateway because they have a profile, be that on social media or be that in the publications they write or produce. but they've also got pressures themselves, right? They've there are many of them, even if they're freelancers, will still be working in multiple different cultures, having to pitch themselves, having to manage all of this stuff.

So I come at it very much as a relationship of equals, not from me not thinking I've got s not got anything to offer them, but me thinking like, I get it. Like I get that you are just trying to get your editors to understand. You're competing in often

Pippa Goulden (25:15)
Yeah.

Rachel (25:16)
for column inches or to get your story placed. I get that you are gonna have to the difference between a freelancer that is gonna look potentially for a scoop for tomorrow's news.

versus somebody so I was speaking to somebody else yesterday who is looking to do something that is very reflective and thoughtful over the next three months on something. Again, that has nothing to do with my business, but that journalist knows that I have relationships with people who might speak to them anonymously in confidence to reflect on experiences they've had over the last few four or five years.

Pippa Goulden (25:53)
Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I mean, you're doing it brilliantly, you know, gold star for you.

Rachel (25:59)
Thank you. The but the

thing is it doesn't always yield so I'm not it doesn't

Pippa Goulden (26:02)
Yeah, yes.

Rachel (26:03)
always yield results that you can put in a shiny star

on your website.

Pippa Goulden (26:06)
Yes. Yeah.

Rachel (26:09)
Like I put the logos on my website of every publication I get in, but all of the stuff I've described on this podcast today you will never see on my

Pippa Goulden (26:16)
Mm.

Rachel (26:17)
on my website. But I've got authority with those people. I can ring

Pippa Goulden (26:20)
Yeah.

Rachel (26:20)
up that national television editor and I know that they will always answer.

Pippa Goulden (26:24)
Yeah, and it always leads to things as well, doesn't it?

Rachel (26:26)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (26:27)
you're playing the long game with it, which is, you

Rachel (26:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (26:29)
know, that's what's key to all of this. And what impact have you seen? So you've been doing this for a year now. What impact are you seeing it have on your, on your business?

Rachel (26:40)
Funnily enough, it has really helped me hone the strategic intent of my business. So you come into it and you think, maybe it'll help me get more clients, more money, more whatever. And yeah, all of that stuff is obviously necessary and great. But by putting a PR lens around what I do, I now have a much sharper focus about the work that I accept, the work that I won't accept, the work that I'll pitch for.

the what that I won't pitch for, thinking about everything I do through not everything through a PR lens. I don't mean that to in the wrong way, but it's just given me almost like a clarity of what it is that I am doing

Pippa Goulden (27:22)
Yes. Yeah.

Rachel (27:24)
and saying and stand for so that when I am pitching or when I'm cultivating new relationships with potential clients, I could do it with a with a with better clarity and definition.

Pippa Goulden (27:33)
Yeah,

and I think that work comes from not the PR pitching bit, but from the work that we do at the beginning, which is like the, do you want to get known for? And that's evolved actually, hasn't it? Over the last

Rachel (27:44)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (27:44)
year, and we'll talk about the evolution. And so it hasn't stayed still for you, which is exactly right. But I think doing that.

deep work at the beginning. making sure like, why, like, why do you want to get known? Why do you, what's the intention of it? What do you want to get known for? Deep diving into all of that then sets you up for everything in all the layers of the business because it means that you're coming at it from the core of what you do want to get known for.

Rachel (28:13)
Yeah,

and do you know what is interesting? Because since I've had the more media profile and had more like authority, and since we've been able to kind of because a lot of the work I do is quite complicated, it's quite

Pippa Goulden (28:24)
Mm.

Rachel (28:25)
nuanced, so it's not like it's not an easy slogan. So when we've been able to distill it into

Pippa Goulden (28:29)
Yeah.

Rachel (28:31)
well, we do the difficult stuff, this was what it could mean, we have that means helping you have difficult conversations. You know, the way I've talked about it today.

I

have had clients that have not yet bought from me, but have contacted me just in the last couple of weeks actually, to say we're doing our strategic planning for twenty seven and we want to put some money in the budget to bring you in next year because we've watched what you've done over the last year.

Pippa Goulden (28:54)
Amazing. So it's so fascinating, isn't it? Because you just don't know who is watching. we've been taught, especially over the last few years, that it's all about likes and engagement. And actually it's not, it's about creating, owning who you are and stepping into those shoes. And I've noticed it in my own business when I stepped into those shoes of the founders go to PR person.

It's made a massive shift in the business, not because I'm about, you know, reels and likes and all of that stuff, because

Rachel (29:24)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (29:25)
I know what I want to be and I know what I want to be there out in the world and that's obviously what's happening with you.

Rachel (29:30)
Yeah,

and it is a really like a slow evolution that just starts to click, right? Like it you

Pippa Goulden (29:34)
Yeah, yes, yeah.

Rachel (29:37)
do it and there's moments where you think, gosh, there she is again on that

Pippa Goulden (29:41)
Yeah.

Rachel (29:41)
voxer saying to me, What's your PR priorities for this week?

Pippa Goulden (29:44)
Ha ha ha!

Rachel (29:45)
I'm not sure what I've gotten, but busy woman, Pippa. And then and then you think here she and you think, gosh, what am I gonna say to her? What am I gonna say to her? And then bit by bit it starts to come and suddenly you're like, No, actually

this has landed or I have I'm not gonna do that interview because

Pippa Goulden (30:01)
Hmm.

Rachel (30:02)
it's not gonna fit with what I want to get known for.

Pippa Goulden (30:05)
Yeah.

Rachel (30:05)
I'm gonna I'm keeping that journalist's relationship or the journalist turns you down when you send a pitch. Well actually I'm gonna get back to them and say, no problem, but how can I, you know, well let's keep in touch in case we ever need to talk to each other. You know, it's just all of these little things have really helped

Pippa Goulden (30:20)
Yeah.

Rachel (30:21)
get to a position where you could I certainly feel more comfortable in my authority than I did before.

Pippa Goulden (30:28)
Yeah and I've noticed you, the way that you kind of say things about certain topics and stuff I've definitely seen and I guess it goes back to that idea that it's all a muscle right, it's all

Rachel (30:38)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (30:38)
you're kind of practicing it and the more you practice it the more confident you get in it, the more you are feeling like that person and yeah.

One of the things that I think you do really well as well is you've built this authority ecosystem that I talk about. So you do the earned PR like press and podcasts and speaking and that kind of thing, but you also have your owned things as well. Let's talk a bit about that. So you've got the podcast, you've

Rachel (31:02)
Mm-hmm.

Pippa Goulden (31:03)
done white papers, which you've been really strategically kind of aligned with the partners you've done those with. Why do you think that's important from having that owned authority piece?

Rachel (31:14)
In

part it's because you can contribute to external PR and it essentially will boil down to a sound bite or you may not have edit it's very rare to have editorial control. So you're part of somebody else's context. When you have your own, you can control it. So whether that is making it sort of the white paper making it more longer form, I deal a lot in polarization between people.

when you've got that polarisation with people that you know are struggling to get on, who may be in tribes about various social issues or workplace issues or, you know, that it's very difficult to address that in a snapshot. So having the white paper has enabled me just to set out my stall. If you're gonna buy from me, you know what I think. If you're gonna buy from me, you need to know who you're getting.

and that may c you may not like who you're getting, so you may choose not to buy from me, or you may you need to I'm I'm also very direct in style, so therefore you need to understand that I'm not going to tilt my head and say we're all gonna have a nice cup of tea and get on because that's not what I do. So the white paper was a way of me really exploring all of that through practice, through the ten years of having the business, the types of conversations that we've had. So in part it is about expanding my

my offer, if you like, so people really understand who I am and what I stand for. Help people dis distill and decide if they want to work with me as a result of it. And there's something in it that I find very freeing, particularly in the podcast. I mean, I've not always gone down well on my podcast. I mean we did get to number eight in the Apple charts, which was great. And then what's his c what's his face? Stephen, what's he called that? Stephen

Pippa Goulden (33:01)
Stephen Bartlett.

Rachel (33:02)
Bartlett sent me a message because we were the only podcast that was number in the top ten business that week.

I was flying off to Greece on holiday and I got this message in my WhatsApps 'cause every other podcast was one of his and then we were in the middle at number eight in the business charts. Yeah. I think it was like

Pippa Goulden (33:17)
did not know that what did he say? Exclusive!

Rachel (33:21)
Well

done. It was something it was something just it was probably his PR person that did it. It was probably wasn't even him, right? But it just

Pippa Goulden (33:24)
Yeah, but still.

Rachel (33:26)
said so it was just something like there was lots of clapping hand emojis and then it said, Well done, good to see you here, or something it was something like that. I'm paraphrasing. but I was like, gosh, right, okay and then I looked at the charts and I could see why, you know, that had been sent. But I can I'm very opinionated in my podcast.

So the bits that are it's professional because I still think about what I'm gonna say, but it's the place where I will have a right ride with my podcast partner if I need to, and I've known him a long time, so I can, where we deal with things that are contentious. So if I don't like something, I say it. And so then again, it's just about me being able to be authentic in the world in a way that I own, that's then put out into the world.

And if I want to correct the record from anywhere else in the world, I've got my podcast to do that.

Pippa Goulden (34:21)
Yeah, and I think it probably helps filter, right? It helps filter out the people who won't want to work with you for that reason,

Rachel (34:28)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (34:28)
but who really will want to work with you for that reason. And actually, when they then send you that email to say, can we work together? They've made that decision already, yeah.

Rachel (34:38)
Mm, funnily enough,

I've got an email this morning. from somebody saying you might recall we were introduced to you in twenty twenty, whatever.

I'm looking for somebody who's not going to shy away from having a really difficult conversation with our board. And I was like, all right, this is working.

Pippa Goulden (34:57)
amazing isn't it when they are saying your own words back at you you know

Rachel (35:01)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (35:02)
you know that that's that you're in there that's that's amazing

Rachel (35:04)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (35:05)
yeah so your message is getting out there it's brilliant well done and and you are also pivoting is that the right word

into 20 in 2027 tell us more about this

Rachel (35:12)
We're pivoting, pirouetting, pirouetting. Yeah,

so when I left school I studied counselling and psychotherapy theory for that module and it's funny how the world takes like a 360, isn't it? And so here I am at nearly 50

So I am going to be launching my psychotherapy service next year, which I'm

Pippa Goulden (35:33)
Amazing.

Rachel (35:34)
very excited about. But a kind of a bridge between what I do now and

Pippa Goulden (35:39)
Mm.

Rachel (35:39)
what do so in part it enables me to diversify diversify my income stream, having a B2B arm and a B2C arm. Also it's something that

feels very natural, I'm good at it, I enjoy it, I'm interested in people, I like that kind of deep work. It is more clinical and regulated. So speaking to all of my kind of NHS background and you know being part of I in time, you know, I'm doing some I'm about to start doing some work for a a hospital. So being part of a clinical team offering that. but I also just feel that there is space

know I've got some areas of interest that we are starting to build authority to for that for that, which may seem incongruent with what I'm what I do now. So you know one area I'm very interested in is approaches to pain management because pain is something that if you have long term pain, it is really debilitating. But it also affects your ability to show up and work with people and engage with people. So I'm look I'm look I'm interested in kind of

Performance as you know, and that's be that sports performance or professional performance. So how does your mental health affect your professional performance? and I'm also interested, particularly because I've as a feminist, I've done a lot of work in the women's sector and for women over the years. and so I'm very interested in medical misogyny, misogyny generally, what does that look, how does that show up and the kind of pain and for women and being believed?

whether that is physical pain or whether that is emotional pain. So a few different branches of that that we're exploring and beginning the authority building now for next year. So

Pippa Goulden (37:23)
Yeah.

Rachel (37:25)
applying to speak at conferences, looking at collaborations and because of my NHS background, I'm very, very big on research and evidence and academic evidence and peer review and that kind of thing. So everything I do with authority is not just opinion, though my opinion matters.

It's also evidence based and for this service in particular, you know, it's a different way of working, it's confidential, differently differently regulated and I'm also very mindful of that.

Pippa Goulden (37:52)
Yeah, and I think what's been really interesting seeing you approach this kind of new arm of the business is that you are coming at it with the same level of authority that you have from a business that you've had established for 10 years and beyond with all your experience. So how have you found that transition to a new business but making sure that you come in at the right level?

Rachel (38:17)
Mmm. It's been a conscious choice.

Pippa Goulden (38:20)
Yeah.

Rachel (38:22)
that is true. In part, I feel like the authority is already there

Pippa Goulden (38:27)
Yeah.

Rachel (38:28)
because of my history, particularly working for the NHS for such a long time, and working in innovation and treatment and things like that. So because I understand the landscape, it's made that a lot easier. Because I understand the pathways, it's made that a lot easier. So

As I look to build and design and think about, but it's funny, the work we've done has really because I was like, I want to go back to what I started in in 1996 and have gone in and out of training for over the last you know however many decades and done bits of work in whether that's psychotherapeutic education and training workshops, or whether that's research or or now you know, next year launching the the one-to-one service. I

through the l the work that we've done, I've been able to have a lens straight away on what do I want to get known for. So it's a you know, if I'm launching this bit of the business, let's not launch it then decide, let's decide then launch. Because we can always change it.

Pippa Goulden (39:29)
Yeah, yeah, will evolve anyway, won't it? But yeah, absolutely,

Rachel (39:31)
Yeah, yeah.

Pippa Goulden (39:33)
I love that. And I've got a question for you that is part from your experience of doing your own PR, but also with your professional hat on, you are very good at going for the right things. mean, obviously we've talked about the reasons why, because you kind of know inherently what you wanna get known for and what.

the right opportunities are gonna be for you, but you don't seem to overthink. So I will send you an email or I'll send you a message and say, I've spotted this, this would be good for you. And click your fingers and you've pitched yourself for it. There seems to be very little overthinking, should I do this? What if they say that? And a lot of the people I know in my world overthink everything. They're

Rachel (40:13)
Mm-hmm.

Pippa Goulden (40:14)
holding themselves back. So what's your advice for that?

Rachel (40:18)
So

the reason I don't overthink is because I know who I am. So doing that bit of work before

Pippa Goulden (40:25)
Yeah.

Rachel (40:26)
to be really clear about who you are. So I've had conversations with you and I know you wouldn't send these pictures to me, right? But you know

platforms are just what's become the you know the publications are platforms so you you know having that clarity and if

Pippa Goulden (40:40)
Yeah.

Rachel (40:40)
you are somebody who is working with Pippa and listening to this have this conversation with Pippa right like

Pippa Goulden (40:44)
Yeah.

Rachel (40:45)
what is it that I want to be and what do I not want to be

Pippa Goulden (40:48)
Yeah.

Rachel (40:49)
and then become once you've got that it is far easier to be discerning quite quickly and so I have the targets in mind that I want to be in.

But if anything else comes, and I also just think there is nothing I can't comment on, so it's my choice whether I should or not. So you

Pippa Goulden (41:08)
I love that.

Rachel (41:09)
send something to me, so I don't think there's anything that I can't have an authoritative voice on,

Pippa Goulden (41:15)
Yes.

Rachel (41:16)
then I will look at it. So I'll always say yes to you, and then I'll go away and I will work at pace on a statement, holding line, reply, whatever. Whilst doing that, I will think.

I can be authoritative, but do I have the authority and does it meet me? Does it serve me? And if I then go,

Pippa Goulden (41:35)
Yeah, that's great.

Rachel (41:36)
do you know what it doesn't serve me, I'll can it. If I think, well, let's just see, I'll send it off anyway. The

Pippa Goulden (41:43)
Yeah.

Rachel (41:43)
other thing is I am really conscious of journalist deadlines. And if you're not fast, you last. So I will

Pippa Goulden (41:48)
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

Rachel (41:51)
nine times out of ten, if I get something from you.

If I can, I will stop what I'm doing to do the statement and send it back to you within second and that's politics, 'cause you've got to go, go, go twenty four news news hour.

Pippa Goulden (42:01)
Yeah,

yeah, you know the cycle and you are used to working quickly and that definitely pays off. Like there's something that you're working on at the moment for a national paper that we spotted. I was like, Rachel, this is for you and within, you know, 10 minutes you were signed up, you're gonna be in the paper this weekend. Like that's amazing.

Rachel (42:19)
Fingers

crossed, yeah.

Pippa Goulden (42:20)
fingers crossed, touch wood. Well,

by the time this comes out, we'll know whether you're in or not.

Rachel (42:25)
Ha ha.

Pippa Goulden (42:25)
But even so, you've built that relationship with a journalist, it's a new person, it's a new angle that you can talk about, you know, it will do you some good, whatever comes of, whether

Rachel (42:35)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (42:35)
it ends up in the paper or not, right?

Rachel (42:37)
Yeah. And also understanding what your USP is on the issue.

Pippa Goulden (42:42)
Yeah.

Rachel (42:43)
So I know what I want to do in the difficult stuff. On that

Pippa Goulden (42:47)
Yes.

Rachel (42:47)
one that you've just talked about with that journalist, they were ask they had a set of questions. They wanted like my take on this, and they were not binary questions, but they were like, you know, you could give quite like yes and or yes but or no, I think that. Where I took all five questions.

And I went, We're getting rid of them because I I'm answering them, but this is what I think. Here is

Pippa Goulden (43:10)
Yes.

Rachel (43:10)
a hundred words on what I think. I've answered all your questions, but it is uniquely me.

Pippa Goulden (43:15)
Amazing and that's the confidence that you have in your work and knowing what's the right answer right that you are able to do that. yes, I love it. I could literally talk to you about this all day. So what's your advice for anyone who's thinking about this thinking I want to do what she's doing.

Rachel (43:34)
Do

it. I mean, send the fucking email. It's your strap fine, right? It's why I why I wanted to work with you because you also swear. I've been very

Pippa Goulden (43:40)
Hahaha

Rachel (43:41)
good and not swearing in that a lot today. I think yeah, it's just take the plunge that you know you have to kind of get used to, and I still feel a bit like if somebody rejects you,

Pippa Goulden (43:53)
Yeah.

Rachel (43:54)
but you just have to get used to it because what they're looking for, you might just you just might not be the right fit for that moment. So

Pippa Goulden (44:03)
Yeah.

Rachel (44:04)
Just do it. Just

Pippa Goulden (44:05)
Yeah.

Rachel (44:05)
do it and ease yourself, you know, if you have to, just ease yourself in. and Pippa will help you really sharpen up your intro. So I have the same the same like biography and some of the same phrases I use to describe myself in shorthand that we came up with, because journalists haven't got time.

Pippa Goulden (44:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

It's getting the information succinctly, it? whilst you, and especially with someone like your career, it's actually quite hard to be succinct with it because you've got so many strings to your bones,

Rachel (44:36)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (44:37)
so many different things that have happened. But yeah, being able to like hone in into a couple of sentences is so important. And it's so, it's not an easy thing to do. So, you know, all of this stuff does take time, but I always say that if you do it, if you do the groundwork, you do it and you upskill yourself up front, then you can hit the ground running. And that's what I'm seeing you do, which

is great to be part of.

Rachel (44:59)
The other thing you d tell me to do, which I now always do, is my little biography, my mini biography, I always at the end of my pitch email say, just for reference, I've pasted my biography below and attached a headshot.

Pippa Goulden (45:12)
Yeah, because your credentials are so impressive that, you know, even if that pitch isn't landing, least, you know, can, A, they can see who you are and what you're doing, why you're pitching for that particular thing. But also, they might be like, well, actually that wasn't right. And that happened, I think it was with Stylist, that you'd pitched to a journalist for something and then they came back to you three weeks later and said, this has happened, I know you'd be the right person for this, can you comment on it? Mm, yeah.

Rachel (45:35)
Yeah. And it was like a whole page the second time.

Pippa Goulden (45:39)
Yeah, you had the lead feature, didn't you? Yeah, yeah.

Rachel (45:39)
Yeah. The column. Yeah, the lead feature and stylist for

for that one. How exciting. And that was one of my targets as well. Remember?

Pippa Goulden (45:46)
Ugh. Yes?

Rachel (45:48)
I'd had some things where like where I'd said to you, I really fancy being in like n absolutely not strategic at all. Because on the surface of it you could say, Why would stylist, for example, be something that my business as you know, has been would really target? But I was just thinking about when I

worked in senior leadership myself. It was something I always read and I just really like it. I was like, I really fancy getting stylist. I was

Pippa Goulden (46:10)
Yeah.

Rachel (46:11)
in it twice.

Pippa Goulden (46:12)
Yeah, and they do actually do really good careers content and

Rachel (46:14)
They they do.

Pippa Goulden (46:16)
it still resonates with, you know,

Rachel (46:18)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (46:18)
half of your target audience. And even people, you walk into a room and people know, you know, that you've been featured in there. There's gonna be some psychological kind of piece that that kind of press coverage does for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel (46:26)
Completely. Yeah, because it has authority, so you're authority meeting with authority and then everybody's got it, aren't we? All

happy.

Pippa Goulden (46:35)
Dreamy.

Rachel, thank you for coming on PR Made Simple. I literally could carry on talking to you forever, but I

know you've got very important things to be doing. Thank you so much. It's

Rachel (46:47)
Pleasure.

Pippa Goulden (46:47)
so amazing watching you do the work that you do and being a very small part of it. So thank you and thank you for sharing your insights with everyone today.

Rachel (46:56)
I've loved it. And the other my final thing would be have fun with it. Have fun. It is fun.

Pippa Goulden (46:58)
Yeah, good one. It is fun, isn't it? When you start

doing it, it actually is really fun. Yeah, totally.

Rachel (47:05)
Have fun with it. Have fun with Peppa. That could be a sub slogan.

Pippa Goulden (47:10)
Amazing! There's my new strap line guys! Thanks

Rachel (47:12)
Ha ha ha.

Pippa Goulden (47:14)
so much Rachel, see you soon! Bye!

Rachel (47:16)
Take care, bye.