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Pippa Goulden (00:44)
Hello and welcome back to another episode of PR Made Simple. Now today I am talking about something that's triggered by something that's happened in the online coaching world in the States, which I think it's opened up a really important point and question that I want to discuss today and that is pay to play. So you may not have seen this, but.

Over the last few weeks there's been a lot of spicy content online. Basically some coaches paid another coach $25,000 each to speak at this coach's event and they're basically kicking off after the event because they're saying they didn't get what was promised and they basically became part of her sales funnel and they don't think that they got value from their £25,000 spend.

And so what I want to talk about today isn't the nitty gritty of what happened or who said what or who did what, that's not my business. And honestly, there's enough people out there doing that already and I don't really care. But I think what is really important and this is raised and this is what we're seeing over here in the UK as well is this whole pay to play, whether it's stages, whether it's press, whether it's being on a podcast.

whatever it is, should we be paying to do that? If you want the authority a stage can give you, should you be paying or are there other ways to do it? And this is what I'm gonna dive into in this episode. And I'll be honest with you from the start, my alternative, my approach, the way that I do things probably is going to take you a little bit longer than getting on a stage but paying $25,000 for the privilege. It does take time.

but it absolutely works and it keeps working long after that event has happened, right? So let's get into it, okay? Let's start with the stages. I genuinely don't think pay to play works for anyone involved, not the speaker, not the host and definitely not the audience. And really it all comes back to the audience. Everything that we do, we should be thinking about who we're reaching, who we're connecting with, how we're getting to speak to people.

An event exists for the people sitting in the seats. They've bought a ticket. They've probably sorted childcare, traveled, given up a working day. They deserve the best possible speakers in that room. And if you're the one running the event, then here's my problem. If your test for who gets on your stage is who can afford to pay for it, then you're not curating the best event. You're auctioning off the stage and those aren't going to give you the same result. They're not going to give the audience the same result. You might fill your lineup.

you will cover your costs and make profit. Absolutely, events are really expensive to put on, but you're handing over control of the one thing that your whole reputation rests on, which is how good the day actually is. Next year, when you're trying to sell tickets again, people will remember that. They will remember that they are basically being seen as a cog in your profit cycle.

Events are expensive, like I've said, I know that better than most right now. I am putting together Get Known Live, my event on the 16th of November. And I've had it in my head for, I'd say a couple of years. I know that I want to take the attendees from A to B to C to D to come out with the impact of them feeling empowered, feeling ready, sending that fucking email whilst they are there.

And I know the right combination of speakers and people and things that I need to do during that day in order to affect that change on the attendees, in order to have that impact. Now, if I just had auctioned off the stage to the highest bidder, I would not be able to guarantee that that is going to be the impact that I want my attendees to have, right? Flip it around. Say you're the speaker who has just paid 25K, what happens next? You need to get that money back.

Of course you do. So you have to sell from that stage and you have to sell really hard. And audiences can smell it a mile off. The trust you went there to build turns into, God, here's another pitch, here's another pitch, here's another one. You know, think about that poor attendee. They've paid to be there. The speakers are paid to be there. And now everyone on the stage is trying to make their money back from the people in the seats. So nobody signs up for that. That is not an event. It's a sales floor with lanyards and...

nice food. This has happened to me quite a lot recently. I've been approached to speak at events and host workshops at people's events. I've got all excited, had the conversations booked in a call, love the sound of it, and then I've been told there's a fee for me to pay. No thank you very much. I'm not going to name names, but you my problem with this is that I'm really f-ing good at what I do. I bring value, knowledge, experience. I help you to sell tickets by being

on your roster for the day. I'm part of the reason your audience has a good day, has a brilliant experience. And you're expecting me to pay you and then spend time developing a talk, developing a workshop for your ticket paying audience, right? We spend so much time in this female founder community talking about paying women their worth, surely asking them to fund your revenue stream is absolute madness. Now,

I'm not saying you should never speak for free, okay? That's a totally separate conversation and I've done a whole podcast episode on that. My approach for that is if it's the right room and I know being there is worth more to me than a speaker fee would be, I will do it. But it has to be balanced. It has to be a balanced equation. It has to work for both of us. When I sat down to plan Get No Live, this is what really mattered me. Some of my speakers I'm paying because having them in the room benefits me more than it benefits them.

Others are speaking for free because we talked it through and it works for them. They know that they will get more out of it. But nobody has paid me to be on that stage and nobody ever will. Every single person on that stage was chosen because they're right for the audience. The speaking spots at Get Known Live are sacred and they are not for sale. And by the way, if you're sitting there thinking, I want to be in that room, there are a few tickets left, Get Known Live on the 16th of November at Arding and Hobbs in Clapham Junction.

We've got Liz O'Riordan doing the keynote. We've got Hattie Brett, the editor-in-chief of Grazia, speaking. Caroline Britton doing a mindset piece. She is going to blow your socks off. We've got founder panels. We've got panels of PR gatekeepers. And I'm going to be working with you through the day to make sure that you are ready to send that fucking email. It's a full day of people who've been chosen because they've got something brilliant to say, not because they wrote a check.

and nobody's gonna sell to you from that stage. That is a promise. So we're nearly sold out. If you want to get one of the last tickets, grab it in the show notes. I wouldn't wait on this because they will sell out. Anyway, I wanna talk, like I am not a massive fan of pay to play anything. It's not just stages. We're seeing pay to play all over PR. It just wears lots of different outfits. It's the publication that gets in touch to say they'd love to feature you and then sends a rate card.

It's advertorial dressed up as editorial. It's the congratulations you've been shortlisted award where you then pay to enter, pay for a table at the ceremony and pay to use the logo. It's the podcast that charges its guests. It's the as seen in package. And somebody, I get asked actually all the time. Someone asked it to me really recently on a webinar I'd done about what to do when a publication asks for payment. And my approach for all of this generally is don't.

not because it's evil. Sometimes, and I saw this when I was editing the publication that I used to edit, there is a genuine partnership where it's balanced on both sides. You know, that is a different conversation. If it really works in your favor, then absolutely, I am not anti-paying at all. But one random bit of pay coverage on its own isn't gonna do much for you, okay? This isn't me being sniffy about it, it's me being strategic.

PR is about building momentum. One piece of coverage sitting on its own, especially when you've paid for, is not gonna connect to anything. Nobody's looking for it. It's not part of a bigger story about who you are and what you're getting known for. It goes out, it gets a few likes, a few weeks later it's gone. And let me tell you, you've heard me probably talk about the stage that changed my business. There was a speaking opportunity I'd been waiting for for three years. And even though I tell all of you to go out and send the fucking email, I didn't.

But then did a whole mindset piece. I'm going to fast forward. I got over myself. I sent email within two weeks. I was booked to speak. I didn't pay a penny to speak on that stage. And two years on, I can trace around 40 Ks worth of income back to that one talk. And it's not because of that particular stage that day. It's because of everything that has built to it and from it, more speaking opportunities.

people coming straight into my programs, know, the six get known cohorts that I've built, get known live itself. It's given me the confidence to stand up and say, this is what I want to get known for. This is what I do. Trust me, I can help you to do it. And it wasn't one single moment that did that. It was the build that's come from it. So yes, this stuff takes time. I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

My rule of thumb is one to two hours a week consistently over months. Some weeks you'll do more, some weeks you'll do less. Absolutely, that's what happens, life happens. But I think that's exactly why pay to play is so tempting because it looks like a shortcut. You write the check and skip the slow bit. But the thing that actually works, people trusting you because other people trust you, is the one thing you can't buy. know, Carly did a TED Talk with 252 followers on Instagram.

Rachel, one of my accelerator clients has two journalists come to her on the same day for comment about two different things because she'd become a trusted source. They're not paying for this, right? They're building their reputation over time.

Pippa Goulden (10:51)
think part of the reason pay to play exists at all is that so many of us believe that PR is expensive, exclusive and for other people. So let's bust a few of those myths.

Pippa Goulden (11:00)
I was listening to a podcast recently where some brilliant founder friends of mine they were talking about PR and some of the myths actually that I think

are out there around PR, even with people who are absolutely smashing their business. And the first one is that they think PR is a fancy thing to have, that it means being on the telly, being on this morning, sitting opposite Stephen Bartlett, touring the country on stages. And if that's not you, if that's not what you want to do and how you want to build your business, if you've got zero desire to be on telly, you've decided then that PR is not for you.

But honestly, I would say that's maybe 5 % of PR. Most PR is podcast interviews, online features, expert comments, collaborations, awards, guest sessions in other people's communities. And nearly all of that can be done from home, you know, in your gym jams. You don't have to want to be famous to be known for what you do. I think there's a really important distinction there. And the second myth is that you're either doing PR or you're not.

So many founders are doing PR without calling it PR. You're guesting on podcasts, you're running workshops in other people's memberships, you're collaborating with peers. It's something that you're doing without intention and without strategy. So imagine how powerful it will be if you actually start doing it intentionally and with a plan. I worked with a founder a while back who told me she tried PR and it didn't work for her business. She paid agencies.

And because they were being paid every month, they had to deliver results. So she got press coverage about how much she loved hiking and doing extreme challenges. For her B2B service business, that was never going to do anything. That is not going to shift the dial for her business. Meanwhile, she's already doing brilliant PR herself, collaborations, podcast interviews, talks in exactly the right spaces. She just hadn't connected that it was PR. And so she was doing it ad hoc. And then once she started doing it strategically, everything moved for her. And then...

I think one of the big myths I see about PR, and maybe this is why people do jump to pay to be on the stages, is that you have to be bigger first. So Lizzo Reardon, Dr. Lizzo Reardon, who's keynoting at Get Known Live, she started out with 2000 followers on Twitter. She's now the go-to industry expert. She's on Lorraine regularly. She's being flown over to the States to do collaborations and talks and that kind of thing.

But that didn't happen because she's got a big profile. It happened because she didn't wait until she was big enough. She got known for her expertise for what she did. That's what made her scale. That's what made her big. And the fourth thing that I hear a lot is that the idea that PR sits on its own, separate from everything else. That it's PR or ads, PR or content, PR or your launches.

and I would really encourage you to start seeing it not as one or the other. PR isn't a nice extra you bolt on when you've got time. When you do it properly, it's a core growth strategy for your business because it makes everything else you're doing work harder. So let's start with ads. If someone has heard you on a podcast or read your comment in a feature, your ad isn't reaching a cold stranger anymore. They see it they think, I know her. You know, I get that all the time. I've seen you everywhere.

on my last webinar, someone told me she'd seen me from somewhere. Then my ad popped up and she was trying to remember where she knew me from. That's the system working. Okay. I run ads and I do PR. They work together. They bring people to your website and they see those as seen ins, which builds that trust so much quicker than if you didn't have them. And then there's how people actually buy now. Nobody sees one Instagram post and buys anymore, especially not anything with a decent price tag. So

I recently signed up for a high ticket program. I'd flirted with this coach on Instagram for over a year. I'd even done one of her low ticket things, got me, but what really got me over the line was listening to her on two podcasts because I could deep dive. I could hear that she really knew her stuff. I could hear how she'd be with me as a client. People research you now. They Google you. They listen to you on podcasts. They look at where you've been featured. They might hear you speak at an event and then go home and do some more research.

So make sure that when they go looking that they find something worth finding. And then your content and your emails, every feature, every podcast interview, every talk gives you content for weeks, months, know, years. I'm still talking about that event that I did two years ago. You can share it, put it in your welcome sequences, add it to your sales pages as a proof.

This is the promote stage of my get-know method and it's the bit that most people forget. They get the press coverage and then they barely mention it because they're worried people will think they're showing off or they just forget they don't have time. But it won't. They will think, wow, she knows what she's talking about. I'm in the right place. She's a trusted go-to. And there's your sales conversions. Nick, who I've worked with for a while, says clients arrive at her discovery calls.

knowing they want to work with her. That call becomes a formality. That is what PR does for your sales process. It does the convincing before you've even said hello. And AI search, my goodness, there's so many different things that I could be talking about, but AI search, you know, more and more people are asking AI tools for recommendations instead of Google. And those tools pull from reputable sources. You can't game them in the way that you can games SEO. So if you're being talked about by the right people in the right places, you'll show up. If you're not, you don't.

And I wanna give you a real life example of all this from my own business because it's happening right now. I've just had a really successful launch of my Get Known Sprint. I will talk about that in more detail, in a future episode because I think there's probably a lot that you'll find useful. But when I sat down and I looked where everyone came from, it wasn't one thing.

Some people came through my ads, some people came through my emails and the Nudge system I've built over time. Some had heard me on a podcast or seen me speak somewhere, seen me do workshops. And a lot of them came because they'd found me somewhere along the way and they'd been watching me for a while. They knew who I was and what I stood for and they'd already decided they wanted to work with me before the doors even opened. That is reputation and it didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen because I paid 25K to speak on a stage. Absolutely not.

It happened because I've been playing the long game for six years since I launched my business. Every podcast, every talk, every article, every email I've sent has added to that. I haven't paid to be on a single stage. I haven't bought my way into anything. Yes, I run ads, but I don't think they're the same thing at all. I've built this ecosystem and it's building momentum

And that momentum is what's helping me scale my business right now. And that is what I want for you. So here's how I think about it. know, ads will make people aware of you. Content's going to keep them warm, keep them engaged, keep them nurtured. And PR helps to build that trust, build that authority, build that credibility. They work together really well. Trust is what makes people buy. So what would I do with 25K instead of buying a spot on a stage?

Honestly, I'd keep most of my money. I'd invest two hours a week, every week for a year. That's about a hundred hours of pitching the right people, the right podcast, sending the right emails, building relationships with the right people, and then amplifying every single thing that lands. That builds something that's still paying you back two years later. know, one afternoon on someone else's stage isn't gonna do that for you. A workshop that you pay to be at.

someone's event isn't going to do that for you. There's plenty of other ways to be delivering those workshops without having to pay to do it.

You can't buy authority, but you can absolutely build it. I'm here if you want to do this with me, my DIY PR membership, my one-to-one accelerator. I will be hosting some free workshops over the next few months. So sign up to my email list and you'll find out more about it. And you can follow me on Instagram, I'm Pippa the PR Set or on LinkedIn at Pippa Goulden. Send the fucking email and I will see you next week for another episode of PR Made Simple.