Please note this transcript is generated by AI - apologies for any mistakes

Pippa Goulden (00:45)
Caroline Copp is a wellness business coach helping wellness experts create and grow profitable digital businesses. She's also a Pilates teacher and has built a successful business both online and offline so she really knows what it's like on both sides of the fence. Caroline did my Get Known program last year and has put it to very good use, building her profile as a go-to in this space and using it in a way that's aligned with both how she likes to work and what's right for her business. More of that to come, I'm sure.

Pippa Goulden (01:12)
So welcome Caroline to PR Made Simple, how are you?

Caroline Copp (01:16)
Good, thank you. Thank you for having me. This is really exciting.

Pippa Goulden (01:18)
it's so exciting to have you here. And I'm so looking forward to deep diving into this because what I love about how you have built your profile and how you're getting known for what you do is in a way that is so aligned with you and what you enjoy doing. And I think it's a really inspiring conversation that we're going to be having. So no pressure.

Caroline Copp (01:36)
I was going to say I hope so.

Pippa Goulden (01:37)
But first off, tell us about what you do. Tell us about your business and how you've got from where you were to where you are now.

Caroline Copp (01:43)
Okay, yeah, thank you. So my background is in Pilates. I'm a Pilates teacher and I have been for almost 22 years now, so a long time. So I've got a long history in wellness, a long story in all the different ways that I've tried to grow a business in wellness, classes, studios, employing teachers, training teachers, kind of done all of that. And more recently in the last eight years now, since 2018, I've been trying to move my business into

more into the online space so that I could always see there was this opportunity to help people more, build bit more impact and kind of create that scalable revenue, which I never was able to do in the wellness space. And I think teachers find this really hard, coaches find it really hard that your time is linked to your income. And so I always knew there was a way that we could scale this, that this could get bigger. And so I started that in 2018, built loads of products and...

offers that completely fell flat and failed and were rubbish and ended up on a membership that grew quite rapidly post-COVID and that still runs now. And so now for the last, I think like three, two and a half, three years, I've been working with other wellness experts to do the same because what I was finding was people were coming to me saying, how are you, like, how are you making your membership sell after COVID? Like no one wants my membership anymore. Don't people just want real life classes again?

And actually, so I could see that there was a need to kind of help people. it started off very organically with a group of kind of local friends, family, teachers that I knew. And it's grown from there. It's grown from there. now it's grown a lot. Yeah, yeah. It's been a big growth over the last sort of, probably the last 12 months has been a a steep curve, which is great.

Pippa Goulden (03:17)
It's going a lot as well, hasn't it?

Yeah, it's amazing. And

how have you found that transition from going from being known and identifying as a Pilates teacher to then being kind of a trainer and a business coach, I guess.

Caroline Copp (03:36)
⁓

Yeah, Like tricky, I still feel like I work in wellness. Like my heart is still in wellness and I still teach. I teach loads less than I did. I gave up all of my reformer teaching and studio teaching this year just because I didn't have time. But I still do a couple of Mac classes a week just with my kind of die-hard long-term clients.

Pippa Goulden (03:50)
You do, yeah.

Caroline Copp (04:03)
So I still feel like I work in wellness because I'm still doing it, but I also still work with wellness experts. So it's really nice from that perspective. The kind of other side of it is that I've always loved teaching. so teaching a group of, know, Mac clients or teaching a reformer class or teaching a group of experts that want to grow their businesses, from my perspective, it's the same kind of same philosophy really, like the same process. It's just different, slightly different direction.

So yeah, although I'm at my desk a lot more than I used to be, other than that, I still feel like I do a very similar job with a similar group of people. I actually much prefer this element of it because I get to work with other wellness experts. And when I was in wellness, I always felt like there was this kind of unsaid competition between us that we can't overlap or share clients. Whereas now I really love that element of it, that we're all in it together and we can just all grow our businesses together, which I love.

Pippa Goulden (04:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I guess

it really helps that you do totally get it from the B2C side of things. You totally understand what it's like trying to build courses to sell to people to do your membership and that kind of thing. So you're able to translate that to the people that you're working with from the business side of things as well.

Caroline Copp (05:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah, totally. And I hear that all the time that when people come and work with me, nine times out of 10, they come because I have worked in wellness and I know what they are experiencing. And so like, I get it. Like I completely get that, you know, how it works really brilliantly when you have young children and they can be in bed asleep while you're out teaching or coaching. But how, you know, for me that worked brilliantly until...

I didn't need that anymore. And then what I needed from my wellness business changed. Kids started getting more expensive, life started getting more expensive. started craving a bit more freedom and I could start to see my world changing so that I didn't want to be tied to a studio seven hours a day. I don't want a big rent that I have to pay. I wanna be able to disappear off to New York on a whim and pay for my kids' car. And I knew that I couldn't do any of that if I was teaching.

and trading my time for money. I think when I speak about that, really honestly, my audience really respond to that. Like they get it, they get the good side, the upsides, but they can also see the limitations. So we can still help people, but we don't have to be physically in front of them. And I think that's the important message for them.

Pippa Goulden (06:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And actually what you've got from a PR perspective there and through all of your messaging and your comms is such a strong story because you really resonate with, or it really resonates with your target audience. And so you don't have to go out and talk about things that have happened to you in your life. Cause actually those stories are inextricably linked into your evolution as a business owner and into what you're doing now, aren't they?

Caroline Copp (06:49)
totally, it brings in, I guess, that bit of credibility, you know, and authenticity, like I get it, and I genuinely understand the struggles and care about the solution. So I think, yeah, from that perspective, it really works as a good story. And I'm sure you're the same, but when I'm working with clients, we're always trying to look for those, you know, those stories, like how can your customers...

Pippa Goulden (06:52)
Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (07:11)
how can your customers really identify with you? And it doesn't have to be your family and the fact that you've got kids or the fact that you live in a certain area. It can be, you know, that you have this backstory. And most of the time, the experts I work with don't even realize that they have that. So that's definitely one of the great jobs we do.

Pippa Goulden (07:24)
Yeah, yeah.

I think the word story can be quite intimidating, can't it? People talk about telling your story and actually it's not even your, it's not your story in that like, you your life story. It's actually just the expertise and the insight you have from doing what you do. And that's actually way more useful to the people that you're working with than something that happened to you when you were 22.

Caroline Copp (07:31)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Totally. I remember working with the PR expert actually way before I met you and she was far in superior to you. You are much better. But I remember her talking to me about stories and saying, know, we need to tell the stories in your business. And I remember thinking, well, I just turn up and teach. Like there are no stories, nothing interesting happens. Like it's the same stuff all the time. And now I recognise that...

Pippa Goulden (07:58)
Mm.

Hmm

Caroline Copp (08:10)
actually it's their stories, it's my client's stories, it's my story, it's it's those interesting real life elements that bring a business to life. Not the, you know, I turn up, I do this hour and, you know, it's the detail of who, it's the who, like who you're teaching, what's going on for them, what experiences are they having, you know, those are the stories. But I found that a really hard concept to get my head around. So yeah, I get that.

Pippa Goulden (08:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

And that creates more layers of opportunity for you when it comes to building your profile and getting known for what you do, because you've got these conversations that you can be having rather than just saying, I teach Pilates or I do this. It's adding in layers to the conversation that actually that's what makes stuff interesting, isn't it? It isn't me going out saying, this is the Piazza and this is how you can work with me. It's showing how I can help founders to get known for what they do and the impact it then has on their business and that kind of thing.

that must play a part in you building your profile and doing this work as well.

Caroline Copp (09:09)
completely. It's a huge part of it and I don't think I've nailed it. I don't feel like I'm perfect at it and sometimes the how-to content comes in and I have to really battle with myself not to go down that road because I'm a teacher so I'm used to teaching. Putting out how-to stuff is my kind of wheelhouse but yeah really pulling out and teasing those stories out of people from my perspective, my business but also from

Pippa Goulden (09:24)
Hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (09:36)
for my clients, know, who is it you're working with? Like, what do you love about them? What do they love about you? Let's start sharing that stuff. Because that's the real life stuff that are gonna draw more clients to you when they start to get a sort of feel for how you work, not just what you do.

Pippa Goulden (09:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, totally. And so you did get known last year, which is my six week group sprint, kind of focused on doing this work, building your profile, getting you know for what you do. Why did you want to do that? I think it's really interesting. Like, what was it that suddenly made you go, okay, it's time now for me to like step up, I'm ready for it.

Caroline Copp (09:57)
Yeah.

Well, partly it was you because you, you you made it really, you know, you sold it in that you made it really tangible. Like I could feel what I was gonna get from working with you. And I knew you liked, you trusted you. So I felt like you were the next obvious step. But also PR had always been a, like a terrifying concept for me. Firstly, because it felt really, really hard. Like how do you get in front of these,

Journalists like they felt like a you know, felt like a dark art. It's a bit like meta-ads It's like no one really knows how to do it And that's so that felt like a really scary idea. Like how do you put yourself out there? The other part of it was that I didn't really get what it was. Like it felt it always felt a bit Shrouded in mystery. I didn't really understand how how to do it or what it was that I needed to get out of it and so get known was a really

Pippa Goulden (10:49)
Hmm.

Caroline Copp (11:01)
really brilliant step for me to just kind of understand it. And actually when I did get known, I realized that a lot of it I am doing, like I have my bio, I do know this stuff, but I didn't really know how to apply it and how to put it into practice. And I think the best thing that came out of it for me was that I think I always had this belief and I think a lot of other experts in their field have this belief that they are waiting

Pippa Goulden (11:11)
Yeah.

Caroline Copp (11:28)
to be discovered. You they're waiting for the journalists to come to them and they, know, it just needs a viral post and suddenly this morning we'll be on the phone or, you know, diary of a CEO will discover us. But actually what you taught me, which I really loved is that that doesn't happen. That isn't how this works. The people that are in the industry that you're in who are doing the best are the ones that sent the email, the ones that put themselves out there and pitched for the work. And I think that changed it for me that we have to pitch like,

Pippa Goulden (11:29)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (11:58)
We have to pitch in our sales, we have to pitch in our promotion, our marketing, like you've got to get yourself out there. And I think that was the big, like, I didn't realize that was why I was doing it, but that was the big, big sort of biggest outcome for me.

Pippa Goulden (12:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's that shift, isn't it, from going, okay, you can do all of the work, can't you, to build, from internally the authority and show that you know what you're talking about. You absolutely have all of that. You're a great example of it. But then often we, and I do it, I've done this myself. I talk about it all the time. But, you know, we sit there and go, right, I've done that work. I've shown that I'm really good at what I do. Hi, where is everyone? And then you go.

they're not coming to me I have to go to them because no one's thinking about you in the same way no one's seeing everything that you're putting out there and we have to get those big girl pants on don't we and start putting ourselves forward and I do think there is and I wonder if you see this with the clients that you work with there is a big mindset piece on that as well it's not just a case of going well I'm going to start sending the email we have to do that work

Caroline Copp (12:37)
Yeah.

you

Pippa Goulden (12:57)
mentally really to get ourselves in the mode because you're never going to be ready for it. You're never going to be like a hundred percent, you know, perfect. You've got to start doing it before you're ready almost. And that's a big mindset jump, isn't it? Yeah.

Caroline Copp (13:03)
you

Yeah, it's a massive mindset jump, absolutely.

Especially when you've gone from the point of sort of thinking, well, I've put out a post every week, you why isn't my following growing? And why aren't people asking to buy from me? And why is no journalist knocking on my door? But it's, yeah, you're right. It's not just the doing, but it's the doing again and again and again, and not giving up at the first no or the first moment where someone ghosts you.

Pippa Goulden (13:33)
Yeah.

Caroline Copp (13:37)
And I think I had a real limiting belief whereby, if this one didn't work, what else was there? Like, where else could I go? And what I realize now is that there's always more clients, there are always more journalists, there are always more podcasts, there's always more that you can be doing. So if you get a no, like that's actually great, because it puts them off your list. You can move on and the ghosting bit is hard. And yes, there's always gonna be an element of that.

Pippa Goulden (13:56)
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (14:04)
But I think the sooner you get your head around the fact that that's just actually part of it, that's part of the process, that's not good or bad, it's just the job, then it becomes much easier. You just get on with it.

Pippa Goulden (14:13)
Yeah,

yeah, just get on with it. It's a really good piece of advice and let's look at what so post get known

Caroline Copp (14:16)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (14:20)
What I love about it is that you've taken it in a way that works for you and your like strategy approach plan. Strategy might feel too big a word, but you know what you're doing, I think strategically is you're doing it in a way that you know works for your business and you know is aligned with you and what you really enjoy doing. So you're not really focused on the traditional PR are you? You're not focused on kind of press coverage and that kind of thing. Tell us what you're doing to get known.

Caroline Copp (14:25)
Mm.

Hmm.

Yeah, so I guess the things that have worked for me really, I'm leaning into what's worked. So, you know, don't get me wrong, I would love an article in Forbes and I'd love to be in print in, you know, startup magazine. But I don't think writing is really my preferred area of sort of promoting myself or my business. So I'm pretty good at talking. So I quite like a podcast, again, I don't go on that many. But what has worked for me in the past is going to

places and businesses that already work with wellness experts and kind of piggybacking on their audiences. I've done a couple or I did a couple sort of beginning of last year or the end of the year, but end of 2024, I guess. And they worked. I guess what I realised by doing Get Known was I need to do more of what is working and less spreading myself too thinly. because it's just me.

Pippa Goulden (15:32)
Mm.

Caroline Copp (15:41)
I need to kind of really capitalize on what works already. So I've really lent into other training providers. So Pilates trainers, yoga trainers, PT qualifications. there's, when I say I've lent into it, I've literally kind of tip of the iceberg. Like there's so much more I could do. But what I find works really well with that is that I can go into those environments and deliver free trainings for their clients. And that just...

Pippa Goulden (15:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (16:07)
showcases me. So then it's like, you know, if you want to know more or work with me, here's how you can kind of follow me. And so that has worked really, really well. And then the other thing that has worked well is just my podcast. And actually, it's on my list this year for growing it. But my podcast has been the by far and still continues to be by far the biggest reason people work with me is that they always 100 % of the time I would, I would

Pippa Goulden (16:19)
Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (16:33)
argue that all of my clients have said the same phrase, which is, binged your podcast and then I came to work with you. So my kind of what I'm leaning into for 2026 is more of that. And again, it building authority around that and bringing in some bigger guests and really, really growing that element of it.

Pippa Goulden (16:39)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting

and this is something that I'm going to be talking about a lot more this year is this kind of twofold authority. So building authority from within your business, which is what you're doing with things like the podcast or it might be events, it might be white papers, whatever it is that works for you and showing that you know what you're talking about. It's almost like your stake in the ground.

and partnering that with the stuff on the other side, which is almost like the external stuff, which again leads to that authority building, which is the partnerships, the credibility pieces where you like, you're doing such a brilliant job there in terms of like this whole dancing on other people's dance floors. And it's mutually beneficial to both sides. You're doing them a favor and they're doing you a favor. And it works really well because together you're almost bigger than the sum of your parts and it's getting you in front of people that would be really hard for you to get.

in front of if you were doing it all by yourself.

Caroline Copp (17:45)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, you know, it's reasonably heavy lift, I would say from, you know, it is a lot of relationship building and I'm not the best at like networking and I'm not overly confident in that space. Like I can't think of anything worse than going to a networking coffee morning. Like it's my absolute nightmare. And I've been to number four and left within 10 minutes. Like it really isn't my thing, but.

Pippa Goulden (17:50)
Yeah.

Yes.

Caroline Copp (18:08)
And I know you love it, so I'm always so jealous of how good you are at it. But I just, that's not my thing. I like to work with my people and people that, you know, and then I love in-person events. I love meeting people and working with my clients, but I don't like really the stranger element. So the relationship building isn't the easiest. Like that is definitely a challenge in itself that I have to kind of, you know, take some small steps there and just start slowly.

Pippa Goulden (18:23)
Yeah.

Caroline Copp (18:35)
But what's really worked well for me in the last 12 months has been that kind of cold pitching, just going out there and sending a voice note or sending a cold email and just saying who I am and what I do and would they like a conversation, would they like to chat, and really making it kind of friendly. But also this is what I'm here for. It's friendly and the relationship builds from there, but that cold outreach has been...

Pippa Goulden (18:41)
Hmm. ⁓

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (19:02)
something I never would have done, I don't think before Get Known, but it has been massive. And it also works not just from the relationship perspective and building with those ⁓ external providers, but also when I'm running workshops, for example, I cold message, I cold DM on Instagram all the time to invite people along. And I would say 50 % of the people that come to my workshops come off the back of a cold message. like that kind of, again, it's quite heavy lift, but it's...

Pippa Goulden (19:07)
Yeah.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (19:30)
but it just seems to work. So I'm sort of leaning into what works. And I guess that's part of it.

Pippa Goulden (19:32)
Yeah. But that's the thing. And that's what I love about

your approach to this work is that you know that the networking events aren't right for you. So you're not forcing yourself and making yourself miserable going along to them. You're doing it in a way. You're building your network, but in a way that is aligned with you and who you are. as business owners, right, this is our prerogative to be building our businesses in a way that brings us joy and brings us, you know,

makes us enjoy the journey. So that's what I would say to everyone. I don't think you should stay in your comfort zone forever. And if things like, you know, podcasts scare you or speaking on stages scare you, start small and build. I don't think you should never do them because it's not your thing. also I imagine at networking events, you meet lots of people who actually aren't very relevant for your business, unless it's obviously a specific wellness.

Caroline Copp (20:02)
Yeah, totally.

Hmm.

Pippa Goulden (20:24)
event. So you're just being really clever with what you're doing and your approach to it. I think it's brilliant.

Caroline Copp (20:25)
Yeah, yeah.

Well, I mean, I guess that that is part of the like problem and upside of what I do is that, you if I go on a generic business podcast, it's not always going to be that relevant for everyone. And a little bit, even like speaking to today, like there'll be a lot of people listening going, well, I'm not in wellness. She can't help me. She's irrelevant, which is fine. But I think it's the PR element that we have in common, you know, that's going to be useful, hopefully for people to hear. But

Pippa Goulden (20:41)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (20:54)
But the same would be true if I went to a networking morning, like there probably aren't that many people there that I can really work with. And I guess for me, it's about bang for my buck. Like I don't have loads of time. don't, you know, I don't have a huge team. So I want to be working on things that are going to give me the best, the best results, which is ultimately, you know, sorry to say it, it's paying clients. Like we're all here to run a business. So it's about getting people through the door. And so I do what works.

Pippa Goulden (21:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes, totally. Yeah. And yeah.

Yeah, and I think you've got a similar strategy to me. Like I know what works, which is kind of workshops, podcasts, when I'm doing the talking things. And those are my key priorities within my kind of PR and my focus, especially kind of when I'm launching things or building my profile. And then I underpin it with the press coverage and the stuff, which gives me the credibility piece and reminds people who are in my audience that I do know what I'm talking about. So I think you can combine the two, but if you're going to choose one area, it

Caroline Copp (21:32)
Mm.

you

Pippa Goulden (21:52)
would

be the thing that works your business objectives. And if your business objectives is scale the business, then focus on those pieces that are really gonna help you to do it. I just think in this, you know, 2026, where we're coming in, we're in a year where you can't just rely on Instagram to grow, you can't just rely on one area.

Caroline Copp (22:11)
you

Pippa Goulden (22:11)
what you're

doing is really strategic because you're focused on the areas that you know are going to help you grow through different routes. You're not just going, I'm only going to do this thing, I'm only going to do that.

Caroline Copp (22:22)
Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, that's the plan. And my word for the year actually, so I know I'm gonna be working with you more this year, my word for the year is amplify, because I feel like last year was a bit of a fact-finding mission, like what's working, what do I enjoy, what clients do I love, and which ones should I maybe move away from? And so I feel like I have a really good idea of that now. And so this year it's all about just doing more of the same.

Pippa Goulden (22:41)
Yeah.

Caroline Copp (22:43)
But absolutely you're right. Like there are things that I'd like to do more of that I haven't lent into yet, which is, you know, speaking on stage, I'd really love to do more of that. And I actually have sent off a big application, which I'll tell you about. Which I haven't heard back yet, but I've sent the email. that's coming. And like you say, you know, there are definitely authority things that I probably should be doing. And that's probably what's going to come this year.

Pippa Goulden (22:43)
Yeah.

Yay!

Caroline Copp (23:10)
because hopefully, now I'm in a bit of a rhythm of what's working, it gives me now capacity to expand that.

Pippa Goulden (23:14)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's

a really good point is you can't do it all at the same time. You know, we have to be kind to ourselves, don't we? Like this is like an ongoing momentum building piece of work that should actually, and what I love about what you're doing is you're doing it through like the core of your business. It's not just an add on to like, I've got to tick it off my to-do list. You're really strategically like embedding it into your, to your business growth.

Caroline Copp (23:21)
No, no.

Mmm.

Pippa Goulden (23:43)
And that's when it's effective because that's when it's really gonna work for you, not just as a little tick box exercise that gets like pushed down the line. I mean, obviously sometimes it does. I get that totally. ⁓

Caroline Copp (23:51)
Yeah, it does, it does, it

does. I used to have it as my Friday afternoon job and I just realized that that is never gonna work. Friday afternoon is like the worst time to do something this important. It should be like the first job of the day. But I do, like, I completely resonate with what you're saying then and I think my audience of wellness experts will feel potentially the same that when you look around you and you see these big names, know, Joe Wicks, Caroline Idiots, like, you know,

Pippa Goulden (23:58)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah, Yes, yes. Yeah, that's such a good point.

Caroline Copp (24:19)
Yoga with Adrienne, they all make it look so easy. Like it's like, they haven't got a niche and they're just helping everyone and they've just got a platform. And actually when I really wish we could kind of deconstruct their businesses sometimes and go right back and look at, well, they sent the email, you know, they started small. It was the momentum that built them. They didn't go straight to women's health. They didn't go straight to appearing in, you know, on the front cover of Men's Health.

Pippa Goulden (24:31)
Mmm.

No.

No.

Caroline Copp (24:46)
Like

it takes a bit of time and a bit of build up. And I think that's what I've really come to appreciate this last 12 months with working in Get Known and working with you is that, you know, that it works, but it's just got to keep plugging away.

Pippa Goulden (24:51)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's why it feels really frustrating sometimes when people say, PR didn't work for me. I'm like, well, how long did you give it? You didn't give it long enough.

Caroline Copp (25:04)
Yeah, exactly.

No, no, it's like, I mean, it works for everybody. Like there's no doubt in my mind at all that PR works for sure. But you're right. It's an investment of time and it isn't always the thing that people prioritize maybe. But I love what your message is that you're never too small for PR because I think there are some really brilliant wellness experts out there who are like intimidated by the fact that there are these big names.

Pippa Goulden (25:11)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (25:32)
And actually some of the biggest names, no names mentioned, but some of the biggest names in the industry are not good trainers. They're not good coaches. They just had the balls to go out there and put themselves forward. That's the only difference. Like actually there are better trainers for sure.

Pippa Goulden (25:41)
balls. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, totally, totally. And I guess that leads to my next question, which is kind of around these mindset issues, because I think you probably see them a lot in the wellness industry, don't you? That it's too saturated, other people have more expertise than me, know, da da da. How do you help people get over that? Because I'm sure that's a big part of kind of, especially when they're moving from doing, you know, in-person group.

classes and that kind of thing to them putting themselves online and putting themselves out there. How do you help them make that transition?

Caroline Copp (26:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, the mindset stuff is, it can be really hard. And the biggest one I hear is about the saturation. know, the wellness industry is saturated. There's no room for anybody else. And I guess the most important thing that we work on is really identifying very, very clearly who their audience is, like who they wanna work with. Moving away from, can help everybody because wellness experts are brilliant at multitasking and helping everybody. You you could have a class planned and then someone walks in and says, I can't.

Pippa Goulden (26:22)
Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Caroline Copp (26:45)
you know, I can't bend over today. And you've got to change an entire class for 20 people on a whim. So we're really good at that, but that doesn't translate online. So making sure that we are really clearly speaking to the right person. And then when you know who you're talking to, it becomes easier to kind of overcome those mindset blocks because you can just speak to the person. Like rather than thinking about, know, I need to answer all the questions and I need to be...

brilliant on so many different levels. It's like, just speak to your people. So that's definitely part of it. But the other thing is, from a saturation perspective, I often say to people, is the problem solved? Yes, there are a million people talking about menopause on the internet, but is the problem solved or are your people out there waiting for you to help them? And I think that really, from my experience, that seems to be a really nice reframe that...

there's always more, there's always more space. Like there's always space for excellence. So if you can come in there and be brilliant and serve your community, you actually don't need to be the next Joe Wicks. Like we don't need hundreds of thousands of followers. We need a few paying customers. And actually when most experts break it down, they don't need that many people. So I think, yeah, there's always mindset blocks. There's always limiting beliefs. There's always going to be...

You know, this imposter syndrome, I think is a big one. But nine times out of 10, stop consuming and start doing, start creating, start building your business and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and your people will come to you.

Pippa Goulden (28:12)
Yeah,

yeah. All of that advice applies to your PR as well. And actually, often if you're working in a really popular industry, it's because it's a...

It's it's a popular thing and therefore there's more opportunities for you from a PR perspective You know, there's so many wellness well-being opportunities for PR for press for speaking for podcasts Because it's something that most of us are doing and like you say it's about understanding your audience understanding your business objectives knowing what works for you and and Sending the fucking email Yeah

Caroline Copp (28:25)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly. And it's a booming industry. know, like

the, biggest red flag is when someone says to me, you know, I've decided I'm going to do this product. And as far as I can tell, no one's doing it. And I think, God, there's reason no one's doing it. It doesn't work or it's not, you know, it's not going to work. So like, that's the red flag for me. For me, I would far rather someone jumped on a train that is already moving.

Pippa Goulden (28:59)
Yeah.

Yes.

Caroline Copp (29:11)
and carved out their part of it rather than trying to start the, you know, start the whole new movement.

Pippa Goulden (29:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's much harder to start something. And that I actually used

to do the PR for HelloFresh and quite early on when recipe box delivery, like now we all know what it is, right? But when they started, nobody knew that you could get a box of ingredients delivered to your door and you could cook those at home and it would make that whole process a lot easier. And actually when Gusto launched, when I was working with them, they actually relished it. They were really grateful because it helped.

Caroline Copp (29:26)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (29:42)
it helped change consumer understanding of what they were doing. And because they, at the time, I don't really know now, but at the time, their boxes were just absolutely amazing and much better. They were able to then become the market leader because they everyone started understanding what recipe box delivery services were. Starting something that nobody understands what it is, is really hard.

Caroline Copp (29:44)
yen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think historically, I'm not sure on the data for this, but I'm pretty sure that first to market usually fails. It's usually second or third to market that end up with this huge market share. yeah, I agree. Don't try and start something new. And particularly for my clients, they tend to have an audience, albeit not always huge. It can be a few hundred people, but they tend to have an audience that they can tap into.

Pippa Goulden (30:10)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline Copp (30:27)
And it's far easier to get a digital product up and running with the audience that you already have rather than going out and finding a new audience. And it just delays the process and everything just becomes a bit harder. And we can absolutely do that. You know, if you, if you run a program for menopause and you realize six months down the line, actually, I don't really like menopause. I want to work with, you know, postnatal moms, then, you know, then we can go out and find those. But in the meantime, you're making money from your menopause product. So it's a

Pippa Goulden (30:34)
Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Caroline Copp (30:54)
It's about like, let's start in the easy route and then we can pivot and shift and move a little bit. with all of this stuff, it's not a tattoo. Like you can change your mind and go again and jump on a different bandwagon massively.

Pippa Goulden (31:00)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, we've all evolved our businesses in different ways, haven't we? And that's

kind of part of the fun of it really is that we're not standing still and trying to do the same thing over and over again. And, you know, it's building on what you've done in different directions, but it's, yeah, making sure that you're enjoying the path along the way rather than trying to get to an end goal. Because then it isn't really an end goal, is there? It's just something else that is further ahead of it, so.

Caroline Copp (31:15)
Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's only the mini goals along the way out there. Yeah. If you think of an end goal, it feels massive.

Pippa Goulden (31:33)
So what would be your advice

to people who are thinking, ⁓ I do want to get myself out there. I need to get going with this. What would you say?

Caroline Copp (31:43)
I would say just start, like start now because the longer you leave it, the later you're gonna be. Like just start before you're ready. And you know, with your help, with Pippa's help, it is an incredibly simple process. Like it feels a huge job, know, PR feels like, you know, it's another, essentially a whole nother part of your business. But actually, you know, just starting small and starting to get used to putting yourself out there, you know.

Pippa Goulden (31:44)
Yeah.

Caroline Copp (32:10)
there's a lot of really small podcasts out there that you could be featured on and small local magazines and start with small things. Cause actually you don't want to be on this morning until you know your stuff, until you really understand your audience and really have something to sell. So I would just, yeah, I would get going and start small and just start plugging away at building that kind of reputation and authority in your space. So yeah, get known. It's a great starting point for that. really truly is.

Pippa Goulden (32:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I'm so pleased. And what does 2026 have in store for you? Yeah.

Caroline Copp (32:41)
So more of the same,

like I say, amplify is my word and it's yeah, just about kind of, I feel like I had a massive year last year and I would like to do that again. So amplifying and really kind of leaning into the things that have worked already and doing more of them. So, you know, there might be a stage event or, you know, I'd really love to be doing something on stage or kind of growing what I already have, but.

Pippa Goulden (32:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Caroline Copp (33:09)
⁓ Yeah, nothing exciting. It's just sticking with what works and doing more of it. And hopefully working with a whole load of new wellness experts and sort of helping them to kind of bring their businesses to life as well, which is really exciting.

Pippa Goulden (33:22)
⁓ I'm so excited for you, and I'm sure it is all going to I can't wait to see you on that stage Exciting ⁓ and how can people find you?

Caroline Copp (33:26)
Thank you. I know you'll be getting pictures. Don't worry.

So they can go to my Instagram, which is Caroline Copp and ⁓ COPP, or they can go to my website again, which is carolinecopp.co.uk there are all sorts of ways that you can kind of dip your toe and find out ways that I can help you for free. I also have workshops that happen every month. So anyone is welcome to come along to one of those and find out more about how they can run a digital business.

Pippa Goulden (33:52)
Yeah, and binge the podcast too. I will put all of the links in the show notes so people can find it really easily. Thank you so much for sharing your insight. Here is to a very exciting, amplified 2026 for you. And I will see you soon.

Caroline Copp (33:55)
finish the podcast. Yeah amazing thank you. Yeah fab.

Yeah, thank you.

Amazing. Thanks, Pippa.

Pippa Goulden (34:09)
I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Caroline. I think she is a great example of somebody who is building her profile and getting known for what she does in a way that's really aligned with her, but also in a way that she knows strategically works to scale and grow her own business. So hopefully you've taken some inspiration from that. And if you want a piece of the Get Known pie, the doors are open.

Early Bird is available until the 27th of Jan. We kick off the week commencing the 9th of Feb and it will be a cohort of amazing business owners just like you who are ready to step out of the shadows and get known for what they do. And I see it time and time again with the people who've come through the Get Known program, the impact it has on their business in terms of positioning and be able to talk about.

all of those things through all of your comms in terms of the action taking and the quick results that you can get from it. This is not a course that sits gathering dust in your inbox. It is very focused on results, on taking action, on being able to implement this through your business long after we've worked together and on really building your profile and allowing you to step out of those shadows and get

things that are gonna really make an impact to your business. So yeah, come on and join us. All the links are in the show notes if you want to find out more. I am around DM me, slide into my DMs. I am Pippa the PR set on Instagram. I'm Pippa Golden on LinkedIn and I am at the prset.com. So come and find me, ask away. I am here to help,

we will be back again very soon for another episode of PR Made Simple.