Please note this transcript was generated by AI sorry for any mistakes

Pippa Goulden (00:43)
Oh, have I got a goodie for you today? I'm so excited about this one. I am speaking to Dr. Anna Colton, who is a leading clinical psychologist, an author, a podcaster, a media expert specializing in adolescent mental health, performance psychology, trauma recovery, and the psychology of food and body image. She is so good at what she does and she has done an excellent job.

building her own profile and getting known for what she does. She's a regular on the This Morning Sofa. She's been interviewed on hundreds of podcasts. She's gone viral on the Joe Marla podcast and so much more. She's also the author of an incredibly brilliant book that I can highly recommend called How to Talk to Children About Food. She's one of the UK's leading media psychologists.

She's a regular voice on the TV, radio and podcast. And she's also one of my current one-to-one accelerator clients. We've been working together for about six months and still are working together. It's the first time I've had a current accelerator client on the podcast. So it's going to be interesting.

to hear everything she has to say about that.

Pippa Goulden (01:52)
So welcome Dr. Anna to PR Made Simple. How are you doing?

Dr Anna (01:56)
I'm great, thank you Pippa, how are you?

Pippa Goulden (01:57)
Yeah, really good, thank you. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. I've obviously introduced you, but could you tell us in your own words, what you do in more detail.

Dr Anna (02:06)
So, it feels like such a straightforward question. So I trained as a clinical psychologist and worked in the NHS for a decade before moving into private practice.

and

now I specialise as I always have done in eating disorders and all things feeding and eating originally I was

child and adolescent, then only adolescent, and now I'm kind of adolescent and adult within that field. I also specialize in acute adolescent mental health, performance psychology. So I'm resident psychologist on Matilda, was on Billy Elliot, and on many a number of West End shows. I do media psychology, so I work behind the scenes on lots of reality TV shows and lots of docs. And I also do trauma and complex trauma. And whenever I say it out loud, it just sounds like an absolute mad kind of

cauldron of different expertises. But I guess what I'm known for on socials more than anything else is the eating and the food because that's what my book which came out in February this year was all about and parenting around food. so, yes, although I've been pretty present profile wise for about eight, nine, 10 years now in this last year or two years, it's become much more.

of the food and eating focus.

Pippa Goulden (03:15)
decision from your perspective or was it something that led you down that path? Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Anna (03:19)
The Food and Eating Focus, that was about a book. So

I really, as I say, I worked in eating disorders, it's now nearly 25 years since I was an assistant psychologist.

my research was on inpatient anorexia, published on inpatient anorexia in the journals and then worked in eating disorders in the NHS for a decade, then went into private practice and continued anorexia and bulimia, predominantly anorexia for me is probably what I'm best at even though it's pretty tricky. And I wanted to write, I really wanted in all my work, I kept having very similar conversations which weren't necessarily about treatment although of course they were but were all about

So what is it that enabled this anorexia to emerge? What was going on in your life? What are the messages you get at home? And there were so many similarities that I didn't want to write a treatment manual. What I wanted to write was a kind of really, I suppose, mass market book that was all about how we are being set up both societally and within families to have eating disorders. And I wanted to write something that might help parents or help anybody do that differently.

start prevention at home from day one in a very, I hope, straightforward way and not sounding too dramatic. So once I decided, once that's what I wanted to write and once that got picked up by a publisher and I got really lucky and, you know, three publishers went to head to head for it and I was like, my God, this is the stuff of your dreams. I can't believe this is happening. Then I had to gear all my socials to it. And ever since then, I have made a concerted effort.

to be the person who talks about that. So it's, find that really tricky because actually I don't just do one thing and I've never just done one thing. Part of the way I'm made is that I get bored by just one thing. But I do understand in social media, you have to do mostly one thing. So that's how I got to this point.

Pippa Goulden (05:06)
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because actually we've been talking about this within the accelerator, is whether you do want to focus solely on the food side of things or you're bringing out the other areas of your expertise. And interestingly, you're on this morning a lot, aren't you? And often that's actually not relating to the food stuff, is it?

Dr Anna (05:16)
Hmm.

Yep.

It's more often than not, it's not about food. So I got incredibly lucky. when my book came out, on the day of publication, I got the This Morning Author slot. So I had a whole seven minutes on my book, book PR. It was phenomenal. I mean, like, I really felt like that child in the sweet shop or that I'd won the lottery on that This Morning.

But I think I got that, although my publishers did get that for me, I think I got that because by then I'd been doing this morning on and off for 10 years, it's 10 years now. And so I wasn't, I was a known quantity. I wasn't terribly risky. so I think I had the credibility, which meant this morning, even though I didn't have the kind of...

social media following which would be an automatic, yeah she's got a million followers of course we'll stick her on the author slot. I think they knew me well enough that it was pretty, I was safe.

Pippa Goulden (06:12)
Yeah, and so if we rewind then, obviously we've been working together this year, but you've been building your profile much longer than that. you've been on this morning, you've got to the point where you have got a book. I'd like to pick you up on one thing, you've twice said it's luck, and it's absolutely not luck. It's because you're incredibly good at what you do. So I just want to reframe that a little bit, but.

Dr Anna (06:21)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Pippa Goulden (06:34)
But how have you, what did you do to start building that profile? Because you've obviously got the expertise first, all of that's come first, but then how did you consciously, or maybe unconsciously, start getting known for what you do?

Dr Anna (06:47)
So I'm going to go one step back and I think there is something about who I am and how I'm wired because I'm not very good at following the rules and doing things conventionally.

Pippa Goulden (06:49)
Mm.

Which is why I love working with you.

Dr Anna (07:00)
That's very kind.

I'm like, why is there that rule? I don't want to do that. Which has benefits and it has massive disadvantages. You know, I'm terrible at bureaucracy, I'm awful at admin. There are lots of things I'm not very good at, but following rules for the sake of rules I'm not very good at. so I suppose I'm wired in that way of doing things a little bit differently going, but hang on, I'd like to do this. So it doesn't matter if that's not my path. I'm going to see if I can do this. And I've always taken those risks.

So that was kind of the set up. I also was brought up with the saying, it was my dad's saying, with across the board in life generally, if you don't ask, you won't get, and if you do ask, you might get, right? If you don't ask, you're definitely having a no, because there's no opportunity for a yes. And if you do ask, you might get a no, but you might get a yes. So there's literally no downside in asking. It's all about how you ask.

Actually, I think it is really such a good piece of advice and such an easy nugget to hold onto. So I've always been quite good with that ingrained in me from a really young age at asking. And then what happened was I was initially, not anymore,

I was for many years a very ambivalent psychologist. it came quite easily. but at no point was I one of those diehard psychologists who absolutely loved it, had never wanted to do anything else. I'd wanted to do lots and lots of other things. And indeed I still could think of about six or seven different careers I'd love to do. But one of the things that I'd done growing up, being a musician growing up,

and loved performing and then had done lots of amdram and music at uni. And then after I'd had my kids, actually, when I left my clinical training, I was really unhappy. I was trying to leave psychology. And I had a really very, very tricky final year and was doing some amdram and thought, I want to do this. I want to act and sing and...

do music and perform. I don't want to be a psychologist. I don't enjoy this. And I auditioned slightly on a whim for a course that I don't think is running anymore, run by ENO, the English National Opera, it was like a foundation course. And so was a night of singing a week, a night of drama and a night of movement and dance, drama and text, movement and dance.

I never expected to get in I've never done anything like it but I just auditioned because I was so miserable doing my clinical training and lo and behold I got on

which is kind of the story of my life, at which point, when I finished my training, I went straight into doing that. And I absolutely loved it, although I was pretty out of my comfort zone. And so that was kind of the beginning. And the relevance of that is that then I had my twins. I was 33 weeks pregnant when I our final show and it was twins. So I didn't carry on. Had I not had the kids then, I may well have gone to drama school or moved into performance, but I didn't. And I had the kids and I went back to psychology.

and I had the same old ambivalent relationship with it for the next however many years and I did some amdram on the side and I kept all that performance going on the side and then I started to get increasingly pissed off that the thing that I loved was the thing I wasn't doing and the thing that I didn't love was the thing I was doing and then was thinking, my God.

I'm so gutless, I never applied to drama school, I never applied to music college because the academic route was easiest. Sorry, this is a very long-winded answer, but it is kind of relevant. I'm going to lie on my deathbed thinking I was a gutless wonder saying, why didn't I even try? Because I really believe you've just got to try and then you can put things to bed. And so I...

At that stage I'd been in the NHS for 10 years, I had an established career, I was working in a very well known, eating disorder clinic and I auditioned for drama school. Mad, completely mad. So had four kids between one and six. And I auditioned for four or five drama schools and...

just so that I could put it to bed and go, well, at least I tried, I failed. Now I can just stop spending so much time ruminating about the fact that this is what I want to do. But yet again, it didn't quite go that way because then I suddenly had a recall and then I had a place. I was like, what am I going to do now?

So I left the NHS and I left psychology and I went to drama school and I did the most intense year of my life. I have never worked so hard and I have worked really hard and I don't think I've ever worked so hard as that year because I was doing professional acting training. I was learning lines that needed to be learned from one night to the next morning but I had four children so I never started before nine or 10 o'clock at night and then I was usually up at five or six in the morning and then I had to get to drama school and then I left there. I was there from eight till six and then I got home and then I did the kids and then I...

So it started again six days a week and it was extraordinary. Anyway, apart from the fact that I nearly broke myself and I'm forever grateful to my husband for all of the support that I got to do that. And it did put it to bed for me and I then acted. So then I did leave psychology and I did act for a bit. But the point of all of that is, is when I finally decided that actually I needed to come back to psychology because I needed to earn a bit more sensibly and that...

I wrote to, and this is the PR bit, I wrote to this morning and all the ITV daytime magazine shows and went I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm a trained actress and I'm really really comfortable in front of a camera and I'm really comfortable behind a camera and I'm really unusual because I'm camera trained, I'm a clinical psychologist, if ever you need me use me and so I guess that was my first bit of proper PR was that I just went ⁓ write that email then.

not really expecting very much to come of it and I got immediately something back saying thanks very much, really interesting, we'll circulate and then it went dead and then on my daughter's sixth birthday party and I'd been up till three in the morning making her cake and then I was up at six again finishing it off and I got a call at seven o'clock from this morning saying and it was the day after the German wings plane crash which you may or may not remember

And this morning called and went, hi, we've been given your details. I can't remember by whom. We need a psychologist to talk about pilot suicide and the German wing plane crash. Can you do it? We'll send a car, be with you in 20 minutes. I actually thought I was going to be sick. I was on three hours sleep. And it was that siding doors moment where I was like, if I say no, it's gone. And I went.

Yeah, sure. But it's my daughter's birthday party and I have to be back by lunchtime and they went, we finish at 12. I was like, okay then. ⁓ my God, I didn't have the clothes. I didn't know what I was talking about. I had to research it in the car and that is how it began.

Pippa Goulden (13:01)
That is amazing. I love that story so much. And I think actually there's something really, there's two things there that people can take away from that. I think one is you've sent the email, you've put yourself, you sent the fucking email and you said yes before you were ready. And I think, you know, I mean, you're, yeah.

Dr Anna (13:03)
Ha ha ha!

I sent the fucking email. I did send the fucking email.

my God, I so wasn't ready. And I

look back, why not how they did my makeup that day and I looked like some horrendous version of myself because it was the most terrible makeup and they turned me orange with black eyebrows. Anyway, I got fussy about makeup from then on. ⁓ I I learned to speak in bullet points.

Pippa Goulden (13:30)
Ha

Dr Anna (13:35)
on the This Morning sofa because you learn on the job and it goes out live. So in some ways it's disposable, it's over before you finish, by the time you've finished it's done, it's over, it's aired, it's out, it's gone. It's yesterday's news. And I learnt like unbelievably quickly that you couldn't waffle. And I thought it was terrible in every way.

And then they called me four days later and said, can you come and do picky eating on Tuesday? And I was like, that's literally my area. And that too was horrendous, but for different reasons, because the child they had on the sofa with us, it wasn't picky eating, but you know, so it was very tricky trying to navigate that, but it was a way, it was a better experience. I absolutely loved it. I knew what I was talking about. I'd had one, tricky experience four days earlier, and that was the beginning.

Pippa Goulden (14:17)
that is so, I love that so much. it just shows, doesn't it, that, I mean, obviously you've got the experience, right? So you have the, in inverted commas, work experience, from a profile perspective. But it's because you sent the email and it's because you put yourself out there and said, I want to do this.

Dr Anna (14:34)
So yeah,

I send the email with no expectations. So that's quite nice to send an email with no expectations. Then when they called and said, you do it? The actual sensible answer would have been, you have to be joking. No way. I know nothing about pilot suicide. I've had three hours sleep and it's my daughter's birthday. And I said, yes. And I think more than sending the email saying yes that morning was the most important thing.

Pippa Goulden (14:38)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and there's been things that I've thought, God, can I do that? And I've said yes to, and thank God I have, because what I find, and I don't know if you find this, but often on the other side of the fear and the my God, why have I said yes, is joy and exhilaration, you actually end up loving doing it most of the time, and then you see the directions that it then takes you in.

Dr Anna (15:18)
Most of the time.

Absolutely, I mean do say no if I feel that saying yes will undermine my expertise because I'm always on as an expert.

Pippa Goulden (15:32)
Yeah, and that,

yeah, there's a qualifier for it, right? So you've got to look at, yeah. Yeah.

Dr Anna (15:35)
There's a qualifier, so there are certain topics I just will not go

and talk about because I don't know enough. the other thing that's helped me, that helps me say yes when I do say yes, which is 90 % of the time, but when I do say yes is who else will do it if I don't? And will I sit there going, but I could have done that better or I knew more or I'm more qualified. And if the answer to any of that is yes, I will, then I say yes. That's my kind of rule to myself.

Pippa Goulden (15:40)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I love that. And so looking back from when you started and when you did that first this morning interview to now, so you've launched the book, you you've built your social media profile, you get asked to do things all the time. What do you think have been the key factors in building that profile and getting known for what you do if you can pinpoint any of them?

Dr Anna (16:18)
The minute you start to say yes, you get asked again. And you have to be quite proactive. I have had to be quite proactive in getting my footage. And I know that sounds really strange. And I know it keep going back to this morning. But they don't give you your footage. So if you want your footage, you have to go about loading ITVX and trying to screen record it or something in decent enough quality that you then have it. So trying to...

Get your data, to get your footage is so important because that's how you can build up your showreel or your database of articles or whatever it is. And I'm really, really fussy about my footage, my articles, my links, my episodes. I want it all because I kind of feel like that's the only control I have over it. And that's how I can then say to people, these are the things I've done. Here's my social proof.

Pippa Goulden (17:05)
Yeah, and I think that makes a massive difference, doesn't it? And the more you do, the more you get asked to do, but also when you're starting to pitch yourself, and maybe slightly different opportunities you've got that social proof, you've got the evidence there that you are able to deliver what you say you will, and that, from a producer, journalist, whatever it is perspective, is really important.

Dr Anna (17:18)
Yeah.

Well, it was

also meant that by the time I'd done four or five of them, I did make myself a showreel. It was a bit rubbish, but I did make myself a showreel And I was then able to, you know, talk to agents about, you represent me? And a lot of them just said no, because I was one of the first psychologists doing this and I didn't have a big social media profile, but I was on telly, not infrequently. And then one said, this is really interesting, but Anna, you can't act and do this. You have to, it's decision time now. You cannot be...

on the ITV News at one and then on doctors. People just are not going to know what they're looking at. And it was so valid and it was such great advice. And at that moment I thought, well, you know what? There are plenty of brunette, slightly Mediterranean looking actresses of my age. There are almost no psychologists who are very happy doing all of this. So I jumped.

I thought I am much less typical in the psychology world than I am in the acting world. And so once I had my agent, I mean, actually it's hard as a psychologist, much easier as a medic than I did. It comes out every New Year. Had I known when I said, yes, it would be every New Year, we might have negotiated something different anyway. I did the big fat truth about diets, but again, that was through my agent. In fact, my agent, the thing about an agent is they open the door, but they don't win the work.

And the reason I say that, and I don't know that's useful for anyone listening, but they, you know, she said, they're interested in you, but they want nutritionists and dieticians. And I said, well, if you're talking about diets, you absolutely have to have a psychologist. And she said, well, they don't think so. I said, can you set up a call? And by the time I got off the phone call, I knew I'd won them over. So if you just sit and wait and don't do anything, you don't necessarily get the work.

but if you see it as a door that gets opened and you then have an opportunity to have a conversation that might win you the work, it won't always win you the work, you don't always get the gig, but that's also something that I really learned.

Pippa Goulden (19:15)
Yeah, and I've seen that with you actually this year working with you. You're really good at opening those doors for yourself and showing up in the right places where you're meeting the right people, where you're able to have those conversations. And that takes a lot, especially when you're running clinics and you're doing, you know, all the other stuff that you're doing. But you are very good at being proactive in doing that stuff, even though you may not realize.

Dr Anna (19:39)
So I

think, you know this, I say this to you all the time, I'm so terrible at it, oh my god, I haven't done all the things we put on the list. And you're like, no, no, no, you're doing it. And I'm like, I'm not really. And you're like, yes you are. Which has been invaluable.

Pippa Goulden (19:45)
For anybody who is-

Yeah, you are absolutely brilliant at doing your own PR, absolutely brilliant at it, although I think you're too hard on yourself because, you know, even in the time that we've been working together, you look at all the podcasts you've been doing, the press coverage, you know, you're so good. And what you're also really good at, and maybe we should talk about this, is obviously with your areas of expertise, there are lots that are relevant to the cultural societal things that are going on at the moment. And what you're really good at is looking at what is happening in the wider world.

and seeing where your expertise lies and where you can then use your expertise to help explain what's going on. And again, that's something that we've been doing quite a bit, isn't it, in terms of jumping on the news agenda, showing that you're an expert within various different areas.

Dr Anna (20:29)
Yeah.

So I find that much

easier because what I find difficult about social media is keeping it all very, you know, 20 seconds. Actually, that's what I really enjoy. I really enjoy broadcast. I really enjoy the news stuff. I really enjoy the nuance that you can have on longer form content or in press. I actually find the quick social is really challenging. ⁓ And that, hence the book. So, so no, that, and I'm really good at being responsive. So, you know, when I see often from you,

Pippa Goulden (20:53)
Yeah.

Dr Anna (21:02)
they're looking for a comment on this. I'm brilliant at that. I'll just send the email. I have no qualms. Hey, I saw you're looking for this. If it's useful, here you go. Bish bash bosh. What I'm not so good at, and I do, is you know, pitching. That's pitching for podcasts I think I've nailed, but pitching for press I have not nailed. So but but being responsive, I'm great. Easy. Love it. I love being responsive.

Pippa Goulden (21:23)
Yeah, and I think also something that we do a lot together, which I know you're doing anyway, is you're keeping an eye on what's going on in the world and how things are changing. So using as an example, the rise of jabs and injections and GLP wands.

looking at how the conversations have been shifting even over the last six months of that conversation and where you can help those conversations and where you can use your expertise. And that's been a really interesting thing. And I think because you have such a broad breadth of experience, you're always going to have some level of...

Dr Anna (21:43)
Hmm.

Pippa Goulden (22:00)
being able to contribute to what's going on within the kind of wider societal conversations.

Dr Anna (22:04)
Well, I hope so.

I mean, it's really interesting because often people say to me, my God, you do so much and it's, how do you manage? Aren't you nervous? And the answer is if I had to do news night, I'd be really nervous, but otherwise I'm never nervous about this kind of stuff. And someone said to me, and I don't know again if this is helpful or not, but someone said to me, my God, you do so many podcasts and what am I meant to say? And I was like, literally, a podcast is a conversation. If you just think you're having a chat, but there happen to be a couple of microphones, it is the easiest, most joyful thing in the world.

You know, and if you just think of it as a conversation, if you big it up to be this dramatic, extremely meaningful, and they are meaningful, don't get me wrong, if they're any of the lovely people I've podcasted with, please don't take this the wrong way. But if you dramatise it and raise the stakes so they're really high, you miss the joy and you miss the opportunity.

Pippa Goulden (22:53)
Yeah, and I think also we always put people on pedestals, don't we? Whether it's a journalist or a podcaster. And actually, like you say, most of the time it's actually just you having a conversation and nobody knows your expertise more than you do. And so that's what people want from you. You're the expert in what you know about.

Dr Anna (23:11)
⁓

Yeah, I mean, it sometimes feels funny, but yes, I suppose so. That's what I'm here for, but yeah, absolutely.

Pippa Goulden (23:17)
Yeah,

yeah and actually from your own professional experience because you do a lot of work with performers and the mindset you work with barristers and you know all sorts of professionals what is it then that is doing that to our brains to make us fearful and worried about kind of finding these opportunities and going for it? Why do we do that to ourselves?

Dr Anna (23:40)
We are primarily wired to fit in because if you go back to evolutionary times, then if you're with your tribe, you're much safer. If you go out hunting for prey, you're much safer if you're with your tribe. But to be with your tribe, you need to fit into your tribe. You don't want to be cast out. You don't want to be seen as arrogant or judgmental or unkind. We don't want you. So fitting in is actually quite an evolutionary thing. It's also how the species reproduces.

So, know, fitting in being with your tribe, not being an outcast is really important. most of us have some kind of primal wiring that leads us to want to do that. And so when we feel that that's under threat, our brains to a greater or lesser extent goes, hang on a minute, this is a bit unsafe. Are you sure you should be doing that? And depending on how experienced you are or whether you like performing or whether you, you know...

are socially anxious or not will be your brain will view it with greater or less threat. And so that's really in a nutshell what's going on. Now, I'm not terribly socially anxious and I do like performing and I tend to think, you know, I will, I will, by the way, beat myself up if I think it's all wrong or, you know, if I've gone and put both feet in my mouth at the wrong time, all of which I sometimes do. But generally it's that anxiety about fitting in, even if that's not how we think about it, but that's what's...

driving it.

Pippa Goulden (24:56)
And so what can we do to move through that?

Dr Anna (24:58)
Well, I think understanding is always really helpful. You've got to start with understanding and then you can be compassionate and you can say, right, well, I get why I feel this way. Do I want it to rule me? You know, I understand it. So what do I need to do if I actually, I want to take these opportunities? How can I reduce the stakes enough so that I don't feel so nervous? Because the nerves are going to get in my way. They're going to tie my tongue up. They're going to, whatever they may do, they're going to make me feel sick. They're going to make me shake. I'm going to make you not want to do it.

So, reducing mistakes, saying to yourself, you know what? You send the email, that's the, you send the email, but they may not read it. Okay, so then if you're going to send an email to someone who's not going to read it, don't spend too long on it, just bash it out, you know, because it may not get read. Now you're really hoping it will get read, but if you tell yourself maybe that it won't, it can sometimes be easier to send. So you kind of enter into a dance with your mind to help it chill out. You can talk to that danger center of your brain, so.

It's the chimp, that's I think the one that most people think of most, say, hey chimp, I know you think this is really scary, but actually I'm only sending an email. It's not life or death, because our danger center, our amygdala isn't there, it doesn't assess the threat, it just alerts you to threat. That's all it does, and we then have to use our human rational brain to assess whether the threat is something we need to pay attention to or not. So you can know that, and you can employ your human rational brain and go, hey, you know what chimp, we're good here, this isn't so dangerous, you know.

The worst that happens is I get no reply or maybe even worse is no. Okay, we can live with that. If that's the worst outcome, I can live with it. So it's all of those kind of little tips and tricks. Also, the more you do it, the more you expose yourself, the easier it becomes. So the first email feels really difficult. The first podcast feels really difficult. By the time you're on the 25th, you're in the groove. It's classic exposure therapy because you become used to it. And that's really helpful too.

Pippa Goulden (26:48)
Yeah.

And it's always, I always talk about the confidence as well, which I would never say to do PR for your ego's sake, but it is quite amazing to watch people who kind of maybe come in and they go, God, this was awful or I'm not very good at this. And then they get the podcast interviews or they get the media opportunities and you can see that their confidence grows and the way they start talking about their business builds and it's really amazing to watch that. And I guess that is, like you say, it's the exposure therapy, isn't it? The more you're doing it, the more your confidence is gonna build.

Dr Anna (27:07)
Yeah!

But the more you do it, so once you start, you then get feedback. And if the feedback is positive, you get invited again. And suddenly you're going, ⁓ actually, I'm not actually so bad, because if I were, they wouldn't invite me back. And so it's that external validation that really helps with the internal validation, which really helps with the confidence. Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (27:34)
Yeah, I love that.

And going back to you and your profile and the work that you've done, what's the impact do you think on your working life by doing this work? what do you see in terms of the impact that it's having for you?

Dr Anna (27:50)
gosh that's such a good question.

I guess it all feels really symbiotic. So everything serves, it's a bit like cogs in a clock. And when they all start to work, it just flows so much better. So I guess the podcasts help me grow social media. The social media growth helps to create opportunities as long as I say yes to those opportunities or to the opportunities that are aligned. There's no point saying yes to an opportunity that's unaligned, I think.

And particularly with food, I'm quite fussy about that because I really don't want to say yes to things where people go, but that's not your brand. This is contradictory. Anyway, that aside, as long as I say yes to the opportunities, then more opportunities come. It builds your social proof. In time, hopefully, you know, it will help with another book or it will help with my podcast launching, which is what I really want to do because I love long form and I really like having the conversations that you can't necessarily have in press or on social media unless you're writing yourself.

And so for me, helps with, God, this is going to sound so vomity. What I do all this for is not actually for me. I'm not in it for any brand deals. I'm not in it for any money. I'm in it because I really feel that there is a massive problem, both in terms of societally with food and eating and how we understand what's going on.

And in terms of services, which are dwindling because it's so difficult and there's no money in the NHS. So my whole thing is I just want to do the education. I'm in this so that somehow I can have a platform for education, not for anything else. And I think in some ways it makes it easier and in some ways it makes it harder because I'm not going on there to sell something other than my book, but I'm really not on, I'm not doing all this so that I can sell courses and make millions. I'm doing all this because I want the platform ultimately that means that I can have some kind of impact.

in an educational way or to change a narrative that is really harmful. And given that that's what I want, then I need exposure.

Pippa Goulden (29:39)
Yeah, it's impact and actually it's really interesting and I didn't ever think about that when I first started the PR set but it tends to be the people that I work with in my one-to-one accelerator that's what they're looking for and that's what the work that they do has because...

As one person, you can only do so much, but actually what this work allows you to do is to create something that's bigger than the sum of your parts. And that's what I see with what you're doing, having these conversations and being able to deep dive into your expertise is so important for the people that need to hear it.

Dr Anna (30:06)
Yeah.

So important. And again, you know, the nuance, everything is actually in the nuance. And the nuance is just so very difficult if you don't have the opportunity to talk and think and kind of share experiences and discuss and tease things apart. It's really difficult. So it is, it's the impact and it's the exposure. But one to one in clinic, I know I have an impact just like you. You know, we all have an impact and it's amazing and it's a privilege. But actually I want my impact to be bigger.

Pippa Goulden (30:35)
and you certainly are doing that. And can I ask you, so you've been in my one-to-one accelerator for a while now and you've extended, we first started working for three months together and you've extended. How is it helping you? Because you were doing this anyway without me, but what do you think the accelerator is doing to help you on my one-to-one?

Dr Anna (30:52)
Well,

I am able to get in my head about sending the email, which is extraordinary when I hear myself describe how I started out doing this. I just sent the email and didn't get in my head. So why I still get in my head, I really don't know. But I do sometimes get in my head, particularly with press, or I feel, or I overthink what I try and put in an email for a podcast I really want. And you're amazing at going, that, been that, been that, been that. Yep, this is great. You're amazing at looking over it. You're right there if I kind of send a WhatsApp or a message going,

What about this and you go yes or no and it's just for me that is so incredibly helpful and also You know working out what should go in a pitch. I'm not actually always sure I don't really know how to do it and I feel I've learned a lot of that I could do rather better the last couple of months I've not done nearly as much as I wanted because things have been a bit crazy and it slips down to the bottom of my priority list if I've got podcasts in the diary or if I've got stuff in the diary then I just go and I had a good run of

Pippa Goulden (31:45)
But you have consistently

been getting opportunities for you since we've worked together. So you are very harsh on yourself because you have had so many things come, you know, because you've proactively gone out there and pitched yourself for them. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Anna (31:49)
I have and I've had a great... I have.

I'm very good at saying yes and I'm very

good at rearranging my diary if I can to make things happen and I think that is important. I really do believe if you really want things to happen sometimes I cannot rearrange a clinic and on the whole I will not because it's not fair on my patients but I will rearrange almost anything else if it doesn't compromise my kids or my patients then I will rearrange my life to make it work. ⁓

Pippa Goulden (32:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think

that's because the reason you're doing this is bigger. So you know that...

you understand the bigger why around the work and what it's helping you to do, I think. And that then allows you to prioritize it. And I think often people say, I need to do some PR and they don't ever do it because they put it on the bottom of their to-do list because they haven't really spent that time thinking about the benefit of the work and what will happen to them and their business and the wider impact for getting known for what they do. And I think it's really important that we take that step back and really

think about it in terms of the ripple effect that we have.

Dr Anna (33:02)
Absolutely,

I also had the thing where you you pour yourself into a book. However easily you write, they take a lot of time and energy. And it wasn't a walk in the park, but you you pour your energy in and then you suddenly, I suddenly realised that I was really lucky. I great publishers, they're absolutely lovely, but they don't PR my book like I PR my book. So if I want my book PR'd properly, I have to do it. And that I learnt sadly a bit late. I learnt it after publication.

which was really gutting. If I wrote another book, I'd start PRing it from before I wrote it. Actually, from the moment I had a deal, I would start PRing my book so that by the time it came out, everywhere was surrounded with my podcast episodes. I would do that. But going back to your accelerator, also, I mean, it's the relationship. You know, I so love working with you. I'd be sad if that were gone. And you're super helpful. you you might sometimes see an opportunity and go, ⁓ do you fancy? Should I suggest you? And I'm kind of like, yeah, great.

Pippa Goulden (33:48)
me too!

Dr Anna (33:58)
and then I'll try and make it work. And so it feels like it works really well and so I really value all of that. And I could probably do 80 % now on my own but it's never as nice.

Pippa Goulden (33:59)
Hmm.

Yeah.

No, no, it's all, yeah, and I think also what I think is great about it, from my perspective, is you're so good at...

doing the proactive stuff and it's that whole teach a man to fish, right? And yeah, he can fish, but teach a woman, founder, to do her own PR and there's no stopping her. And I think that's what is so great seeing the impact of what you're doing within the accelerator is that it's working for you in terms of, know how to do it yourself. You don't have to spend five grand a month on a PR agency to do it for you. It's like it's within the bones how you're building.

your profile and that's what I've loved seeing that.

Dr Anna (34:49)
It

is in the bones. mean, the reality is, would I rather? I just said, Pippa, hey, do my PR for me, please. Now that I know you and I completely trust you, but to find someone who you know and you trust takes a long time. And so I could do that now and I would trust it and I would be okay with it and I probably prefer it. But ultimately that control freaky bit me that goes, I need to know that it's actually being done means that I need to do it.

Pippa Goulden (35:01)
Yeah, yeah it does.

Yeah.

it's so interesting, isn't it? So what advice would you have for people who have these things in their sights, the book launch, the this morning sofa, what advice would you give people?

Dr Anna (35:24)
You'll probably get lots of no's, but that doesn't say anything about your worth. It builds. You just need one yes, and you can build incrementally on it. If you'd asked me the day that, well, no. If you'd asked me at the beginning of my career whether I'd have imagined doing what I do now, the answer would have been, well, I'd love to, but I don't see how I'm going to get there. You know? But you just do bit by bit. So I'd love you'll send the fucking email. Make the call.

I mean, I don't think I'm very good at networking, but it turns out that given that you can put me in a room and I'll chat and I don't feel terribly anxious and then I'll leave because I don't love it. You know, just have the conversation. It's just a conversation. And the other thing is, and I say this to all the performers, particularly in auditions, you know, you are probably helping them more than they're helping you. Every audition panel is desperate.

for someone to walk in and be brilliant because one, it's so depressing hearing those are people who are rubbish. And two, you want to cast your show, right? And so they're not trying to trip you up. I know we all go into kind of auditions or interviews or whatever it may be going, yeah, they're testing me, they're testing me. And yes, they are, but they're desperate for you to ace it. And everybody loves it when they find a great guest or a great writer. They really do, it helps them out. It's not all about you.

It's much, and you care much more about what you say than they do. And if you just take the focus off you and you put it on them, whoever you're talking to, if you're really interested in them and their stuff, in their work, in their podcast, in their articles, you can help them out. You can kind of spin the way you see it. I should take my own advice really, shouldn't I?

Pippa Goulden (36:41)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah, good advice.

Don't worry, I'll make you take it, it's fine. And so what's next? You've got some exciting things coming up in 2026, haven't you?

Dr Anna (37:02)
I'm sure you will!

Yes, so I'm launching ridiculously on brand two podcasts because why would I just do one? But I'm launching first of all, Chew On This, which is everything food related. So any topic you can imagine. a fantastic day of interviews yesterday recorded the first four talking to a cancer surgeon about, you know,

what foods really do or don't impact cancer, what increases risk and by how much and why, what should you do when you're having chemo? Awesome conversation. Another conversation about burnout and why we sometimes eat badly in burnout and what's happening in the body and the brain that makes us do that. then, so anything, and it will cover the whole span, you know, from parenting to cancer, to illness, to GLP-1s, anything. So that's coming out. And then I've got another one, which is...

Very different coming out with a friend and colleague on dementia, which does not sound very sexy, but we have both, mum, I lost my mum to dementia and her mum has dementia. And we're kind of two psychologists who really understand it, who have lived it, but it's not our specialty. Having conversations that we never could access going through it ourselves.

Pippa Goulden (38:15)
Wow, gosh. Well, and I think the podcast, I mean, we've been talking about the podcast thing for a while, haven't we? But it does feel like this is almost the final piece in your puzzle. I mean, I'm sure it's not the final piece in your puzzle at all, because there will be so many other things, exactly. Yeah.

Dr Anna (38:26)
Well, I want another book. I'm going to have to find another book to write and, you know, I want some more telly and I'm, you know, this I want,

I want, I want. But, you I do want to move more into broadcast. So I'm really hoping that, you know, it works.

Pippa Goulden (38:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, it absolutely will. Oh, it's been such a delight. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us because I think especially when people are a bit further behind, it's really great to see the, you know, the potential. And I think, you know, you've done such an amazing job. So you should be very proud of yourself. And here's to more of it in 2026.

Dr Anna (38:42)
⁓

Thank you. Thank you.

Yes, here's to more.

Pippa Goulden (38:59)
I hope you enjoyed that episode with Anna. my goodness, she's such an inspiration. She's doing such an incredible job raising her profile, getting known for what she does. And if you want a piece of that pie for yourself, if you've been inspired, then come on in. My one-to-one accelerator is where I am working with Anna to help her get known for what she does.

so have a look on my website the pr set.com or I am on Pippa the PR set on Instagram or you can find me Pippa Goulden on LinkedIn come along slide into my DMs or book a call and we can chat about the best way for it to work for you and your business and I will see you again soon for another episode of PR Made Simple.