Please note this transcript is created by AI - apologies for any mistakes

Pippa Goulden (00:01.122)
So welcome Sophie to PR Made Simple, how are you?

Sophie (00:04.58)
Hello, I'm really good. I'm very excited to be here.

Pippa Goulden (00:07.956)
So I've obviously introduced you but tell us a bit more about what you do, who you work with and the brilliant work that you do.

Sophie (00:15.922)
thanks. So I always say that I work with impatiently ambitious women because very much like myself, I work with women who just want to get stuff done like yesterday. Huge action takers. And the primary way that we get that done is through meta ads. And I know some people will be like, God, not ads. And other people will be like, ooh, ads. Because they do tend to provoke quite a reaction in people.

nine times out of ten someone will say I tried ads and they didn't work or I've had a bad experience with ads and my main goal in life is to help people find a way to use ads that feels good for them and that works and it's based on a foundation of connection with your audience and nurturing and really understanding why ads do or don't work because often it's not the ads that are the issue it's what you're trying to promote or how you're using them so

Yeah, I'm an ad strategist but in all honesty I don't talk about ads a huge amount. I actually mostly do. I actually have, I said to someone the other week, I have an ads last approach where we do a huge amount of work before we start looking at the ads. So yeah, that's my approach.

Pippa Goulden (01:26.274)
Yeah, I love that and I think that's why it works. But this is obviously a PR podcast so people are like, why are you talking about ads on a PR podcast? Shock horror. But it's because my approach to PR, which is very much aligned with Sophie's approach to ads, is about integrating it. It's not about...

Sophie (01:31.586)
Yes.

Pippa Goulden (01:44.536)
PR, marketing, ads, all sitting siloed. It's actually about them all working together for kind of the common good. And I think I've been in Sophie's mastermind for the last six months, is it now? And I have been doing ads for the first time, well actually not the first time, but the first time where they have worked for me.

Sophie (01:56.923)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (02:05.609)
I've experienced that myself so we'll come on and talk about that in a bit more detail. But what is your approach to ads? Let's talk, let's kind of get into that nitty-gritty a little bit more because I love this approach to ads, I love your super fan system. Explain to the listener a bit more about that.

Sophie (02:22.051)
Yeah, so I have a system, trademarked, don't you know, called the SuperFan system, that basically allows you to use all your different elements of your marketing, so pull all the different aspects in and then use ads to amplify it so that you create an audience of people who are excited to buy from you. Because often what can happen is that people come to me and they have worked with maybe other someone else on ads and they've created a funnel.

and this happens all the time, I've created a funnel, someone's told me to create a funnel, and it's this really high tech system that feels really separate to their business. So it's like, I've got a lead magnet that leads through to this automatic page, has a countdown timer and a pre-recorded webinar, and then loads of emails to try and sell them. And then they sort of just drop into my email list that I'm not really sure what to do with them then. And those funnels absolutely can work, don't get me wrong, they can work.

but they are hugely, hugely technical and most people do not understand or have enough time or willingness to spend the amount of time it would take to optimize a funnel like that because there are so many moving parts of sales pages and messages and offers and everything. So the way that I do it is about integrating ads into the marketing that you're already doing. So for example, so my super fan system.

We look at how can you reach new people using ads. So that might be using your lead magnet to grow your email list to reach new people or just using ads on the content you already have on Instagram to reach new people on your Instagram account, get new followers. But making sure that the content that we're then using in those ads is super dialed in to the kind of people you want. We need to make sure that content is really optimized so that we're actually reaching the right people.

And then when we're creating really great content that's talking to our ideal client, we can then amplify it with things like engagement ads where we show our current audience, the people who've already chosen to follow us, the content that we're already creating, which sounds a bit mental. And I know people say like, I don't think I should have to pay to play, like the algorithms, annoying, like if I'm putting content out there, why can't Facebook show it to the people that want to see it? And I hear you, but it is the game that we play. And ultimately,

Sophie (04:33.207)
If you want to be able to create content, not spend your whole life on social media and get people to see it, like if you can do that for three pounds a day, like why would you not, is my opinion. And then really, why not? And then really for me, like a lot of people want to sell straight away with ads. They're like, I've got this offer I want to sell. I actually don't often use sales ads with clients until we've really tested out that entire funnel. And then we might use some retargeting ads for sales, but generally I sell.

Pippa Goulden (04:42.187)
Yeah, yeah, why not?

Sophie (05:02.699)
my clients sell through email and through webinars and content where they can build that connection and really connect with their clients so they understand their values.

Pippa Goulden (05:12.833)
Yeah, and it makes so much sense when you say it like that. It's much more about understanding the customer journey, isn't it? Or the client journey. And I think, I feel like that's something that people used to really talk about in marketing a lot. And we've almost forgotten that actually at the heart of everything is a customer's journey that they'll come into your world and they're not necessarily gonna buy from you straight away. And it is about building that relationship with them, building them.

into your world in various different touch points and that is where paid for and organic work so well together isn't it because it's about those different touch points. mean they used to say something like somebody would need to see you seven times to buy from you and I heard something someone say 21 the other day I mean who knows and some people yes will buy straight away other people will take a lot longer but if you're thinking about all the different times that your audience need to see you through that journey that

is where paid for and organic fit so well together isn't it?

Sophie (06:13.955)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think in all honesty, so I've been working for myself and doing this since 2016. So pre and post Covid. And Covid actually was one of the many impacts that it had was that it massively changed the buyer journey. And I think that's when we stopped talking about it quite so much because suddenly people were just were buying things. They went from ad to webinar to buying, ad to finding you on Instagram to buying. And people ran these in

Incredible ad campaigns and they were filling memberships and master class master minds and courses really from less ads and an Instagram account and it was so incredible and then what's happened since then is that was in so many ways a a bubble and a such a unique time but I think what it did was sort of trick people but it made people think that this was just the new norm and like

Then when that dropped off and suddenly people weren't just buying, it wasn't so easy. Ads got more expensive because there weren't as many people sitting at home waiting to just click on an ad. And then reels were introduced, that was like August 2020. That totally changed the game as well in terms of like what you had to do to get reach. Actually, it's been a huge shift and I've seen it shift much more now back to people want to, are much more thoughtful about their investments generally.

they want to know the person, trust the person, they want to kind of be in their world. And sometimes still I get people coming to me saying like, I hate social media, I just want to run ads, like I want to run ads instead of social media. And that just, in my opinion, that just really, really isn't a great way to run ads. You're not going to make the most of your budget if you're not connecting with people. And I mean, I really see ads as one thread of your marketing. And for people to get to know you, like you trust you,

There has to be more than social media. And for me, that's where the PR comes in. That's where it's like getting people, know, it's those appearing on podcasts, it's doing talks, it's showing that you've won awards. It's like, how can I layer in all these trust factors? Because that for me is where PR like absolutely shines. Ads are incredible for consistency and reliability and volume, but PR is incredible for the trust, which ads really struggle, can really, really struggle with.

Pippa Goulden (08:33.729)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Because I guess you're an ad is you telling people like, look how great I am. Whereas the PR is somebody else using their platform to talk about you or to tell their audience about you. But it is it's that piece where I was it was a product business. I was using this example in January and I got into kind of the idea that I might try some new supplements and this

ad got served to me and I'd have been having lots of supplement ads served to me and gone onto their websites but the one that then had all the articles and the tried and tested and the magazine saying these supplements actually work with the ones that I bought I mean I'm still you know a few months in I will let you know if they do work but that's what got me it wasn't the fact the ad brought me into their world but it was then all of the PR that they'd done to support the ads

that made that customer journey kind of so important. And that's something that you see with the businesses you work with too, isn't it?

Sophie (09:33.496)
Yeah, hugely. And I talk about, yes, that social proof a lot. And I think the more that we, that social proof isn't just from us and our clients, but yeah, comes from those more external sources. actually, there's different levels of social proof. But the whole experience from ads, the ad is the thing that gets people in. But yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think we all know this from our own experiences, but it's really easy to forget it for your own business. You think, if you go into,

I often talk about this with Instagram accounts. If I see an ad and I'm like, interesting, might be for me, click on it to go through to their profile just to decide, is this kind of person? Maybe I want their lead magnet, maybe I don't. And if they haven't posted in a few weeks or all they've got is pictures of their kids or even loads of posts that may be hugely relevant to me but with no front cover, I don't know what it is. There's just a huge expectation on me to consume their content. It makes it really, really hard.

for you to be like, yeah, I'll follow this person, I'll engage with their content. Really, you really need people to serve it to you. If you're trying to reach new people, you need to make it so easy for them to be like, yeah, look. one of my favourite Instagram accounts is Dr. Becky, you know, good enough, we love her. And one of her pinned posts at the top, I don't know if it's still there, but it has been for a long time, is her TED Talk.

And it's just got a picture of her on a stage with the Ted Talk at the side. She also has like her book on there and the fact that she's got the logo for the Sunday Times bestseller, probably isn't Sunday Times actually, whatever the bestseller list. She also has an app as well, but she was on Oprah. She had a huge amount of content on that. And it just, you know, as soon as you go on and you see book, Ted Talk, like her own app, like that is so solid in terms of

It's not even social proof, it's just those trust factors for me that are so high.

Pippa Goulden (11:32.376)
credibility yeah it's so important and I think so I've been as I said working with Sophie for the past six months and I've seen that I think from my own perspective with the ad so I've gone from building the business for four years organically through PR and obviously you know hopefully I know what I'm talking about from that perspective but it has been a bit of a game-changer for me working with Sophie in terms of using the ads to reach people that I wouldn't necessarily have

got into my world, but then using all of that credibility stuff that I've done to show them that I know what I'm talking about and it's worked so well from an integrated perspective and it's what I talk about a lot through everything we do in the PR set is about integrating. It's not your PR shouldn't be sitting siloed to one side doing one job and your marketing's doing something else delivering different messaging and stuff as much as possible. You want those pieces of the puzzle to fit together, don't you?

Sophie (12:29.445)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where having that bigger picture view, as you said, like nothing, it's like the ads funnel isn't separate, the PR isn't separate, you know, your Instagram isn't separate, like your marketing is like all of these different pieces. And I think imagining, I often talk about this golden thread, which I guess is like the customer journey, but having this goal offer, like where do I want people really to go at the moment, it doesn't have to be the same all the time, but like primarily at the moment, let's say, you know, I'm focusing on my membership.

what content then do I have, if we work backwards, what content do people need to see? What do they need to read? What do they need to experience? Like, is, you know, doing a TED Talk or maybe not all of us doing a TED Talk, but doing any kind of talk, you know, like being on a stage, winning an award or, you know, being in a magazine or whatever it is, that's really gonna be part of that, I call it bridging content to take people from finding you into being ready to buy your offer. And I think this, like this bridging content in the middle here, often people just see it as

Reels, Instagram, maybe some emails, but actually it's so much more multi-dimensional than that. And the more that you can put in this bridging content, like podcast episodes and Instagram Lives and whatever else it is, it's so much richer and people are be so much more likely to be able to connect into your offer.

when they come into your world. So I kind of work backwards. It's like goal offer, bridging content, and then it's like your lead magnet or your ads that are bringing people into your world. And what often happens is people will miss this bridging content bit and then expect people to come into their world. They'll spend a loan of money on ads, lead ads, let's say grow your email list. And then they'll say to me, well, those people aren't buying. They're not buying from me. And I've sent them loads of emails and they're not buying. And I think the audience is wrong. I'm sorry.

So people come to me and often say, you know the audience is wrong, can you help me really get much more narrow with my audience? Or I think maybe the people that seeing it is just not right, Metta's not doing a good enough job. And actually it's often not the case. Often the case is that either the lead magnet is way too generic or general, so it's appealing to people much too broadly. And so then the people coming into their world aren't then going on to the offer because it's not aligned.

really with what they need. Or it's that they're expecting people to come in, receive a series of 8 to 10 emails and jump into their 5k offer. Like you said earlier, sometimes that might happen but generally what we're seeing, I'm seeing anyway, is that people are taking much longer to buy and need a lot more trust and they need this bridging content and you've really got to think about how do I show people this content, how do I weave it.

through my emails, how do I reach other people's audiences, how do I show it on social media, how do I give people the opportunity to experience me in more dimension than just social media.

Pippa Goulden (16:20.139)
Yeah, I love it. It's layering, isn't it? And I think what I love about your approach to this whole thing is, again, it's really aligned with mine, is that it's really strategic. It's not just about trying something and seeing if it works. It's actually, I mean, obviously, you know, there is an element of that, but it's all based in strategy. And it sounds really boring, doesn't it? Like, I don't want to do a strategy. But actually, thinking about your business objectives, thinking about who your audience is, all of those things are so important.

for developing an approach that actually is going to shift the dial for your business rather than just trying things and hoping that they work.

Sophie (16:59.683)
Yeah, and the trouble is, that often when you just try things and hope they work, is that then you end up changing a lot of things. It's like, well, that's not working. I have people come to me all the time. They're like, I was running lead ads for this lead magnet and they weren't working. So I've now got, I'm running sales ads to a different offer. Like, okay, well, we need to, let's take a step back here and look at the actual lead ads. Why weren't they working? Well, let's unpick that.

Is it the ads that weren't working? Is it the lead magnet? Is it that you were taking them through to a different offer? Like, what is it that wasn't working? Because you're right, it's not about, it's about having a strategy. And within that strategy, there's testing and learning, but it's not just a case of haphazardly being like, I'll try ads, they don't work. I'll try PR, that doesn't work. I'll try something else. It's like actually layering these different strategies and kind of make work, and then really committing to making them work.

Pippa Goulden (17:52.078)
Yeah, because I remember when I first started talking to you, I said, oh, I tried ads and I dabbled a bit maybe like two years ago and I did a course and learned how to do it. So I could do my ads myself now if I wanted to. But I remember I didn't do it. I did it for one webinar, I think, and I was like, oh, it didn't work. Brought the wrong people in and that was it. And then when I was telling you this, I was like, oh my God, this is what people say to me about their PR.

Sophie (17:57.542)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (18:19.415)
But it is, I get people saying, I am myself, I am, yeah, I am those people. But people say, yeah, I've tried PR, it didn't work. And I'm like, well, I can see what you've done and I can see why it's not worked because you either haven't done it for long enough, you've given up too soon, you haven't tried different things, you haven't gone out for different routes, you've maybe just focused on one thing which might be press when actually other things are gonna shift the dial for your business. And so you get that a lot with ads, do you? Well.

Sophie (18:20.485)
I've become that.

Sophie (18:47.289)
Yeah, I mean so much. And I totally get it. I think with ads, one of the biggest challenges is that you are directly spending money. So whereas other things like Instagram, you're just spending your time, even PR, it's more about your time mostly. Where you're spending direct money, that's where people find it really, really challenging to keep going. And I often say the biggest barrier for people to starting ads is often this setup, the...

What ads should I run? Like setting it all up, like understanding if they have dashboard and ads manager. And I always say it's a little bit like having a baby. You can get really obsessed with the birth and like what's the birth gonna be and what are my preferences and like how's it gonna go? When actually, I mean the hard part is then parenting the child. Like actually it's like once the ad's alive, you're like this is a long game. You're never gonna get, very, very rarely are you gonna get perfect ads the first time you put them up. But you have to start.

to be able to iterate and work out what isn't working and what is working and like how do we go from there. And that is the thing is that people will put, like you say, they'll do ads for a webinar and then they'll be like, well, that didn't work. But there's no iteration then it's just like, well, no, it didn't work. And it's too much money for me to then just keep going and not be able to understand why it didn't work or how I can change it. And that's really why I work with clients over periods of time.

is a strategy, it's not a golden bullet. People think you can just chuck some money on ads and it'll just, that's what'll sort it out. All that's wrong with my business is that I'm not reaching enough people. I hear that all the time. My business is perfect. I just need to reach more people and ads are gonna do that. And it's like, yeah, but often when we actually amplify something, it's where the cracks begin to show. Maybe, often what happens is your business works really well for a warm audience.

So it works really well for people who know you and like you and trust you. They've been following you, you get word of mouth, you get referrals, like you've built up this great business. And then often what happens is people want to have like a scalable offer. So I call like an audience hungry offer. And you suddenly realize, okay, I've kind of, I've done my first, second launch, where people have come in who know me and now I'm sort of drained that audience. There's not a huge amount more people that if they want to buy, they might buy, but there's not a huge amount of them. I need to get new people into my world all the time. Organic isn't fast enough.

Sophie (21:07.077)
And then that's what happens is they start running ads and then it doesn't convert and they think ads don't work. But the reality is is what they have already is a warm funnel, like a warm customer journey. They haven't factored in is that when new people are coming into your world, they need a very different approach and they need longer, they need more intensive nurturing, they need the bridging content really layered in and you can't just sort of wait for them to find it. You have to have a bit more of an intentional approach to actually, you know.

doing that and that's where PR can massively speed up that process because that's where you can get that depth, that trust, that connection with them.

Pippa Goulden (21:42.636)
Yeah it's so interesting and I guess there's probably people listening to this thinking my god where do I start like what is where do people start with their ads if they haven't done it before I mean obviously with Sophie Griffiths

Sophie (21:56.216)
Because obviously with me. Yeah, I mean, for those three core campaigns I tend to run with most of my clients. The first one is to most clients use Instagram as their primary account that I work with. So we will start with Instagram growth ads. So we just start to get new people into your world, onto your Instagram. It builds that momentum, it's quite low cost, you can run them for like three to five pounds a day. It means you can test out different messages, you can use Reels, you can use...

like carousels, there's all sorts of different options and you can start to bring people into your world. Then I'd normally layer in lead ads, so getting new people on your email list and making sure that you're then bringing in the right people with the right lead magnet and then they can kind of like building that off social media presence is really, really important to me. And then lastly, we will probably use engagement ads where we'll then show your current clients the content that you're creating. But I mean...

You say that and it's just like it feels like it's quite isolated, like we just do these things. But over time we'll do use different ones for different things. Like if we're building up to a launch, it might be like, right, okay, we want to make sure we're showing this type of content to people because we're, you know, coming up to the membership launch. Whereas if you're coming up to like a one-off course, which is for a slightly different audience, we'll show them different content. So it's really about starting somewhere, getting going, and then like playing with it. And like, so that it works for you all the time.

Pippa Goulden (23:18.953)
Yeah and I'd also like to say that ads aren't cheating. I've heard people say that like I think there is this kind of thing isn't there where it's like a badge of honour that you've done it all organically and obviously because I work in PR you know organic is my go-to.

but because I have worked in PR for so long I can see the benefit of integrated campaigns so it's not like I would say don't ever do ads but I do think there's people out there that are saying you know I don't need it I'm going to focus just on organic growth but you're not going to get a badge of honour just by doing that you know ads aren't cheating

Sophie (23:51.056)
Yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting one, that one. It feels like, I'm not good enough at organic. Like, I've failed organic. I've got to use ads. Like, it's like a dirty little secret. And actually, it's for, yes, some people have grown huge businesses without ads, but I mean, it's very, very rare. And often they will have.

some point or like you know it's really interesting when you dig into people's businesses even people who are teaching organic only strategies and really going for it will run ads to get people into their organic only strategy programs and I'm like I totally agree that at some levels like you your ads are working so well because you have such a strong foundation to your business and you've done it organically and so therefore you know the ads are amplifying something that's really brilliant but

I don't think there's any harm in almost any business, as long as you know your ideal client and you know who you're talking to, just starting to use them to build your cold audience. Because when you only rely on a warm audience and people, like the reliances on other people getting to know you, their time, their energy, it's just much slower growth. So if you're ambitious and you wanna go faster, then add the way to do it. I do sometimes use an analogy of like,

I could walk everywhere if I wanted to. I could walk to the shops, I could walk the kids to school. It would limit my world. It would limit how fast I could get anywhere. But I could. And it doesn't mean I'm never gonna walk anywhere again. But for when I need to get somewhere fast and for when I have a heavy load to carry and when I don't want to be thinking about walking somewhere, I take the car. Like I'm really, it's not cheating. I run, yeah, I run. No, Pippa, do you not know me? I don't run, no. I take the car. Like I take something that like...

Pippa Goulden (25:26.519)
Thought you were going to say you run!

Sophie (25:35.651)
It's not cheating to take the car instead of walking to the shops. It's just faster and it means I don't have to carry the heavy load and I can focus on other stuff. And that's kind of how I see ads.

Pippa Goulden (25:43.63)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think also when people feel uncomfortable about doing any of this, like from a PR perspective, I often talk about, think about the people who benefit from your business and who, you know, themselves get better in their own business or your, whether it's if you're a product business, your products are kind of improving their life in some way. You're just letting more people see you and find you. It's not about like, you know, it's about you not being hidden as much.

Sophie (26:08.665)
Yeah, yeah and I mean I did someone once said to me actually something I thought was so fascinating. She's like to be honest I think probably most people who need my product have probably seen me and like decided like it's a no. I was like right well let's just look at let's just actually look at the stats here because it's really easy to get into a little bubble in your little like in our little Instagram world and we have our communities and you think...

you know, everyone who sort of needs to know about me probably does. I mean, the reality is I don't actually know the stats. That would be really handy if I did. But there's like there's tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people, depending on what kind of niche you're in, who need what you offer. Like even if we're just talking small businesses, know, women led small businesses, like there's hundreds of thousands of them. Like you are not, they're not all going to have seen you. And I think it's just reminding yourself, like when you're in that little bubble that actually

Pippa Goulden (26:56.267)
Yeah, absolutely.

Sophie (26:59.351)
It's not like there are people out there who need you and haven't heard of you.

Pippa Goulden (27:02.475)
Yeah, yeah. I did something, it was kind of by accident, we had my 17 year old nephew over and I was really interested to see what his algorithm was feeding him. And I looked at the content that comes up on his Instagram and then we looked at the content, mean, god, this sounds like we were having a really fun afternoon, but I found it really fascinating. We looked at what my husband gets served, looked at what my sister-in-law gets served and what I get served.

everyone's was totally different, which shouldn't be a surprise, but it was a really good reminder for me that actually you are in such a bubble that you are only in and that actually by taking yourself out of your bubble and doing whether it's the PR or doing the ads or just getting in front of different people with different audiences, it's such an important thing to do because you can't keep talking to the same people over and over again and that's what I love about your approach with this is, you know, it's getting you out into different pockets of

different people.

Sophie (27:59.844)
Yeah, yeah absolutely and I think that's what ads can do really well because they you know like if you set up a lead ad campaign like generally we'll be looking at like six to ten million people in the audience like six to ten million people in that will see it and generally like between one and two thousand people a day will see that ad and like not most of them won't click on it but even just for your brand recognition for reach just for you know people being aware of what you do. I had a client recently who said someone bought her high ticket offer

She didn't follow her, she wasn't even on her email list, but she said, everywhere I went, I just kept seeing you. Like you were just everywhere. And it's like, it's that sort of thing that they often talk about the halo effect of ads is that yes, some of it's really tangible, like how much is a lead costing me and like how many people have followed me, but some of it is just this feeling that people get that like, she's everywhere. Like everywhere I go, I see her reel or a post or her talking in someone's podcast. And I think that's where the PR and the ads can work really well together because

The great thing about the ads is that it's a way for, you you can set it, and yes, you need to like test and learn or you spend time on it, but ultimately, it's the thing that works day and night. It works 24-7 without you. Once you've set it up, it kind of just runs and you can tweak it. Whereas the PR for me, so I feel like that's like the engine. It's this like bottom layer that works all the time. And then the PR is the bit that often needs more of your like, your touch. Like you have to run the master class, you have to apply for the award, like you are the ones doing the podcast.

But they're on their own, they're both powerful. But when you put them together and have that, you know, you-ness, and like that intensity and like what, you know, and that social proof and everything with the engine that then makes sure everyone's seeing it, that's, for me, that's the combination that works incredibly well.

Pippa Goulden (29:46.412)
Yeah, it's so powerful. And let's talk about your own PR, because you have done an amazing job as well of getting known for what you do. Talk to me a little bit about that. mean, obviously you've integrated it with your ads because you have a strategic approach. But tell me what you've done.

Sophie (30:00.486)
Yes, do you have a strategic approach? Well, mean, way back in the day, so Pippa and I have known each other for a really long time now in our world and I was in the PR set and one of my first things was to do an Instagram Live series. This is probably my first foray really into PR was I decided to do an Instagram Live on a Tuesday morning and Pippa was one of my guests and I had a different guest every week and I did it for like a good eight months.

Every single week I did Tuesday live with another person and really the goal was to get in front of other people's audiences and to build my network. This is quite early on, probably just after COVID for the ads business specifically. And that really allowed me to prove to myself that it really did work. Like I would go on a live with someone else and as you're sort of talking, you're getting like followers, like following you, getting people messaging you.

I would, then I kind of moved on more to podcasts as Instagram Lives. mean, sounds really dated now, but they were really big back then. Like people used to schedule them and people used to like actually like come and watch you. Like it would be like part of your day to like go and watch this Instagram Live. It's not really like that anymore. But I moved on to them podcasts. I created my own podcast was probably my big turning point in terms of then like really having a stake in the ground about getting known for what I did.

And then I had like, yeah, guests on and I really allowed me to then promote myself as an expert, as someone with authority because I was sort of producing content that was above and beyond just like your Instagram content. Like I had to create 30 minute episodes on topics and like, if you're not an expert and you're not an authority, like it's really hard to do. So I did that and I got like awards, so I've had awards for the podcast. It's been in the top four UK marketing.

podcasts so that is in itself as well like the podcast but also the how well it's done and then I also last year took a ticket up a level and applied for some awards which was very exciting and won yes I won three awards last year so that was really exciting I know I didn't really expect to win but I was like well even just the process of applying was really interesting so they were like women's business awards so it was like

Pippa Goulden (32:12.589)
Amazing.

Sophie (32:22.501)
freelancer of the year and then like women to watch top it was like the top 30 women to watch in the UK and I was in the top five. I know so yeah so it was I think it was just a case of then having to really again step up and be seen as the expert be known for what I did and be really clear on that and then also I love doing master classes being on other people's podcasts I do I gave myself a goal last year to be on

Pippa Goulden (32:32.96)
Wow.

Sophie (32:50.329)
do a training or master class or something in someone else's audience once a month at least and I did that. I also did my first stage speaking as well. I did two in-person events last year where I spoke on stage. So yeah, that's kind of how I've used PR to grow my business. And then the more I've kind of done that, I've then made sure I've integrated it through.

into my content, into my ads, into ways that people can then get to know me in that bridging bit between the lead magnet and the offer.

Pippa Goulden (33:25.535)
it's brilliant. I think you're a brilliant example of someone who's using non-traditional PR routes. You know, hear me banging on all the time about PR not just being about press, but you you are a case in point, aren't you, where it's not actually been about press at all. It's been about...

Sophie (33:39.706)
No.

Pippa Goulden (33:40.894)
tapping into other people's audiences, getting that credibility, showing that you know what you're talking about, using your socials and then your podcasts as PR tools and not just using them to kind of give out information. Obviously they are a tool to kind of highlight your expertise but being strategic about who comes on and how you're doing them. So well done Sophie, I love it, I love it.

Sophie (34:00.57)
Yeah. Thank you. And I still get people now like saying to me, I'm just listening to your like training, you know, in this membership that I did like last June. Or I like, I've had clients from, you know, people, I heard you on someone's podcast and like exactly what I was looking for. And so what I love about that sort of PR for me anyway, is it's long lifespan, like how, yes, you have to do it. And yes, you have to show up in person.

but once it's sort of there, I mean as long as the person is running the thing or the podcast is up or whatever, like it's still, it works for such a long time and that for me is like why it's really worth doing beyond something like an Instagram Live because it's so much more long living than social media.

Pippa Goulden (34:46.977)
Yeah, I love that. And I've got some quick fire ad questions for you because I know that these are the questions that I bet there's no quick answer. But anyway, we'll try. But these are what people will want me to ask because it's all the all the things that I've always thought about ads. So we've talked about where to start with ads, but where like, OK, I want to do ads. What shall I do? Where shall I go?

Sophie (34:50.314)
Oof. Go for it.

Sophie (34:58.254)
Okay.

Sophie (35:11.237)
What are your ads? Where shall I go? Well, I would start with do an online course. See if you like it first. So ads are not for everyone's brain. it's like, but I do always say do it yourself first, even if you want to outsource it at a later date. Because understanding even just the basic fundamentals of ads manager and the dashboard will really help you even when you're working with an ads manager. Most people that come to me have had a bad experience with an ads manager.

Pippa Goulden (35:11.607)
Sophie Griffiths?

Sophie (35:38.468)
is because they haven't done it themselves first and they don't know what to ask for or what they should be looking for. So always, I would always start with, even if it's just basic campaigns, like an Instagram growth campaign, start with that and my audience builder course does give you that alongside my support. So it's the course, but you get six weeks of my support as a minimum and then you have ongoing support if you want to.

Pippa Goulden (36:01.706)
What budget do you recommend starting with?

Sophie (36:05.221)
So you can start from as little as three pounds a day. So Instagram growth ads and engagement ads, both of them you could run for two to three pounds a day. Lead ads, I wouldn't do less than 10 pounds a day. But you can run the whole thing, like all three campaigns I talked about earlier, for 15 pounds a day.

Pippa Goulden (36:23.339)
What do you say to people who say they've tried ads and they didn't work?

Sophie (36:27.951)
Try them again with my support.

Pippa Goulden (36:31.422)
I did that and it worked so I would say that's the correct answer. What is the secret to a good lead magnet?

Sophie (36:37.477)
okay, I mean that is a whole podcast episode in itself. The secret to a good lead Magna is that it solves a specific pain point for someone who is looking for your solution. I call it the trigger point but they're at a point where they are ready to pay for a solution. They can't just have the pain point. I have loads of pain points. Like for example my LinkedIn, I really need, I need to do LinkedIn and yet I keep avoiding it.

Have I paid for support yet? No, because it's not enough of a pain point for me. But am I paying for support with my nutrition at the moment because I'm just feeling really, ugh, a lot of the time? Yes, I am, because I got to the point where I was like, I need to pay for this. I'm just not at a point where I feel like I can do it on my own. So you need to find, what is that trigger point that makes people feel like, okay, I'm ready to buy? For me, for example, clients often work with me. It's because they,

have built up a really great one-to-one business through word-of-mouth referrals, Instagram usually, and then they want this one-to-many offer, this scalable offer, and they realize that doing it organically is gonna take too long. Their trigger point is often a launch that doesn't go very well, a realization that if they really want to grow this business, they're gonna have to do something more than just Instagram. That's their trigger point. So you need to find that trigger point, and the lead magnet needs to talk to that. But don't make the lead magnet too long.

If you're just starting with ads, I don't want e-books, I don't want master classes, I don't want quizzes. I want something that's short, consumable, and easy to implement.

Pippa Goulden (38:11.009)
Love it. There we go. That has been so insightful. Thank you so much. Tell people about the different ways you work. Well, we've got another half an hour. No.

Sophie (38:18.501)
Oh my gosh, for how long have we got? Yeah, no, I have like, I love an offer. No, so I would say if you're just starting with ads, if you are just getting started, the audience builder course is absolutely the place to go. It doesn't mean you have starting in business. I have worked with people who are doing like 30, 40k months and they've never done ads, but come into the audience builder course, it's a really, really great course to take you through setting up your ad account, the basics of all the three core campaigns that I've talked about.

You get my support, we have group coaching calls, we have online office hours where I can review everything. We work on your lead magnet, like your welcome sequence. It's not just the ads either, it's the content that you're using as well. If you're running ads or if you're ready for like next level support, I have a mini mind where we really look beyond just ads. We look at the super fan system, but we also look at stacking your revenue, so your offers, and then also your systems and your team.

And then if you want me to do ads for you and you're at place where you are really ready to scale, then the mastermind is where you want to be, which is where Pippa is.

Pippa Goulden (39:21.835)
it I am in there and it's brilliant I can highly recommend it and you do done for you as well don't you the the whole shevang

Sophie (39:28.613)
I do do done for you, I do done for you, although less and less. I often, actually don't think most people need done for you. A lot of people want it because they don't want to do ads themselves, but most people, you need to be spending like at least sort of 1500 to 2000 pounds a month on ads to make it really worthwhile.

Pippa Goulden (39:49.311)
amazing. Well thank you so much that was so insightful and hopefully it's shown people that A. ads aren't as scary as you think they might be and B. you know how powerful they can be when they're integrated with your PR and the rest of your marketing because it is one ecosystem that we're all working towards. Thanks for coming on PR Made Simple.

Sophie (40:05.913)
Yeah, absolutely.

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Yeah I think so, all good.