Please note this transcript was generated by AI - apologies for any mistakes!

Pippa Goulden (00:44)
Alice Benham is a business and marketing strategist, podcaster, author, and investor on a mission to bring strategy, purpose, and honesty into the business space. She helps entrepreneurs get clear on the big picture of their business and put strategy in place to help them get there. Through her one-to-one work, group programs, courses, retreats, book, the digital marketing handbook, and her podcast, plus lots of other things, I'm sure, she helps people grow and scale their businesses in a purpose and value driven way.

She's also a master at DIYing her PR and a great example of someone who's got known for what they do in a way that's truly aligned with who she is. Plus she had a mega book launch last year, which we're all going to learn so much from.

Pippa Goulden (01:24)
So welcome Alice to PR Made Simple. How are you?

Alice Benham (01:28)
I'm good. I'm very excited to be here. mean, podcasting is just a joy that it counts as work, right? We just get to chat and pretend that we're working.

Pippa Goulden (01:36)
I know, I love it. And I love being able to deep dive into it. And feel like we were just saying before we started, like, I feel like I know you from the online world and I'm so excited. I've got so many questions that I want to ask you relating to your PR, your book, and also the digital marketing side of things as well and how that marries with PR from your own experience. But in your own words first, Con, tell us about you. Who do you work with? What do you do? Where do you come from?

Alice Benham (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Big question. In my business capacity, am kind of everything that I do, I guess, is brought together by the same mission, which is really just helping people to move their businesses forwards in a way that gets them where they want to be, feels good to them. If I had to describe my business to a 12 year old, I'd say that I help people work out where they want to be and then get themselves there in a nutshell. For me, that looks like quite a kind of diverse business model. So I do a lot of one-to-one strategy work. I've got a program.

Pippa Goulden (02:03)
Ha ha ha!

Alice Benham (02:29)
called Onnit, which has over 150 amazing businesses in it that kind of use it to work on their businesses, not in them. Digital products, stationery shop, podcasts, retreats, public speaking, a book. I won't keep listening because it overwhelms me. But yeah, I do, I do. I mean, it's been nine years of evolving and diversifying and adding things in and sometimes taking things away. much better at saying yes than I am at saying no. But yeah, I love what I do. I work with primarily, I'd say kind of

Pippa Goulden (02:43)
Do you ever sleep?

Alice Benham (02:57)
service-based businesses but there's the product guys in there as well and I say my real genius where I'm best at is really helping people in that scaling phase so you're paying your bills you've got your business off the ground it's working but as I'm sure you probably resonate with we get to that stage and then think what do I do next where do I go from here how do I make this work better for me how do I get more out of this business so a lot of the time that's where I come in is helping people you know they've got from A to B now they want to get from B to C and we just work out

what that looks like for them. So yeah, it's a joy, genuinely pinch myself a lot that I get to call this work and yeah, love it.

Pippa Goulden (03:31)
that's amazing. And something that I think that comes through in lot of everything that I see from that you put out there is about your strategy. And you talk about strategy quite a lot. And it's really aligned with what I do as well, because I think PR is most effective when it's strategic. Can we talk about strategy a little bit? Because I think it's a really scary word for people, isn't it? And it makes them almost want to run away. I think I have personally have

Alice Benham (03:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Pippa Goulden (03:56)
horrible hangover from my agency days where strategy was like three weeks work and we had to put together like 27 page PowerPoint documents if not more. But it's not that, it?

Alice Benham (04:08)
Not at all. And I completely resonate with what you're saying. I think that the second that word is brought in, you know, we might be talking about marketing and everyone's happy. And then we say marketing strategy, and that feels really overwhelming. But the same with any topic, as you said, PR, branding operations, like every part of business, the second strategy comes in, it just sends our brains a bit crazy. And I get it. Like as a business strategist, I used to Google what is strategy, what is a strategist all the time, because I felt like...

Surely what I'm doing isn't that because strategy gives me all of these implications of it's so overwhelming and detailed and anyone that's worked with me once before will know that I'm not a 45 page write up kind of person. a, we'll speak for seven hours and I give you a one pager that sums it up. You know, I've never felt, I guess that I've resonated with that like strategy is complicated or it's detailed. So whenever I Googled strategy and I still sometimes do it just to check on what I'm talking about, the definition of it is just a plan.

with an end goal in mind. So a PR strategy is just a plan of how are you gonna use PR to reach your business goals. Your business strategy is just a plan of what your business is gonna do and how it needs to look to achieve what you want to achieve. I often say to people, if you don't like the word, just hear plan. Whenever I say strategy, just have a little translator in your head that goes, okay, she's just talking about a plan. And as you said, it's that.

it's that slightly more switched on plan, isn't it? It's a plan I think is just like, what could I do? What should I do? Versus a strategy is like, right, I want to be here or this thing's important to me. So let me be more targeted. Let me make a plan that's really going to align with that. So yeah, sometimes I think maybe I shouldn't use the word strategy because it would be simpler, but I've decided my mission is to rebrand strategy and make it something that people get and find simple because if we get it, we use it. And strategy is so powerful when we do use it.

Pippa Goulden (05:50)
Yeah, I'm exactly the same. It is effectively, it's a PR plan, but it is more than that. It's having, when I'm teaching PR, I talk about really understanding what your business objectives are and your target audience, and that allows you to put together a really effective PR strategy. It saves you time, it stops you from doing things that just aren't going to shift the dial for what you want to achieve. And so yeah, like you say, we could dilute it a bit, but I don't feel like we should, because also I think a lot of people see things like,

strategy and that kind of thing and they think that's for other types of businesses it's for grown-up businesses or big brands and actually it's not it's for every type of business isn't it.

Alice Benham (06:27)
100%. And I think you said it perfectly there where strategy is often just asking why alongside all of these decisions and plans. You know, I sometimes feel like a broken record whenever I'm working with people that they'll say, I want to do this or I think I'm going to do this. And I'm just always there to go, okay, why? You know, as business owners, our capacity is so limited. At the end of the day, we're building businesses that hopefully achieve an end goal for us, you know, whatever it is that we want to achieve. And I think, yeah, strategy helps you to kind of get more targeted and not just be busy.

but to be really intentional. And yeah, I think people assume a strategy means sitting down for three hours and building some spreadsheet or whatever, but like, know, strategy comes into the day to day. Even this morning, even I was making a decision about something I'm gonna sell next week. And the way I made that decision strategic was just going, okay, well, when in my week does it make most sense? Why have I chosen that time? What are the pros? It's almost just that secondary questioning, isn't it? As you said, of what's the bigger picture here.

Pippa Goulden (07:21)
Yeah, I love that. It's about like implementing it into your day to day and, you know, realigning, looking at it, seeing whether you're on plan, off plan, if you need to tweak and change. I love that. I'm going to change totally now because I want to talk about your own PR because it is brilliant. I think you're so good at doing your own PR and regular listeners will know how much I

bang on about PR not just being about press because I think there is this feeling out there that PR is just about press and I think what you're brilliant at you've done the press as well but you are really great at embracing non-traditional PR so well. So can we start with you? How have you got known for what you do? What's been your approach?

Alice Benham (08:00)
Yeah, so I mean, I sometimes feel like a bit of a fraud with a question like this. And I'm sure you'll then go on to say this is just one way of doing it and it's still valid. But I know this is actually how we got chatting, wasn't it? Was because for me, I've never, I guess, directly intended to get kind of PR opportunities. So as you said, you know, being in the press or being on other people's podcasts or as a guest speaker or like collaborations, whatever that's looked like.

I am incredibly grateful that everything that I've so far kind of got in that, I guess, toolbox for my business has come to me. There's definitely something in that for me remembering, okay, it's not like luck or chance. Okay, what's the bigger picture there? And so I guess if I had to name it kind of my PR strategy up until this point, it was accidental for a while. And then I realized what I was doing and went, okay, let's make sure we keep doing this. It's really just thinking about what I put out, being a constant advert for what people can ask of me.

So thinking about my own content, but actually not just marketing and social media content, but even the network that I'm building, the events that I go to, the relationships that I build, what I try and kind of put out into the world. I'm always thinking, right, how does this help people understand who I am? And if I reverse engineer the opportunities I want, what will they need to see of me to offer me that, if that makes sense? So I have...

It's been strategic, but strategic and I'm sure there's a proper word for it. whatever not pitching is, just the other route.

Pippa Goulden (09:27)
Yeah,

I think probably why it worked so well for you, the route that you have taken is because, and this is just me looking from afar, is that you're really open and aligned in everything that you do. And I think...

Alice Benham (09:34)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (09:41)
it's made you discoverable, right? So you've put out there the things, your expertise, what you know about. And this is what I talk about a lot with people is using, that you use your social tools as PR tools. It's not just about you, telling people about a program you're launching. You take people on a journey with you in various different ways. And I think that that makes you very approachable from a, people that are seeing you as somebody who could talk about X or Y or Z. And I think because you are putting yourself out there that

you know, probably draws people to you from an opportunities perspective. That would be my analysis of it.

Alice Benham (10:15)
I think I really agree with that. It's that like connecting to someone for more than kind of what their business does, right? Which I think for me has always been quite a strategic thing of knowing more so also for the sake of longevity. Like I don't want people to know me for what I do or what I sell. I want them to know me for who I am, my expertise, what I stand for, because then if the business needs to pivot, they pivot with me, right? Cause that connection point stays the same. And it's interesting even to look at

There's been a few times where I've maybe got an opportunity and they will have said, you know, I listened to this podcast episode or I saw this thing. And I tell you every single one, which is why I know what you said there is probably true is where it's been something more personal. So I remember I did a podcast episode all about going VAT registered and a whole load of mistakes I made around that. And then straight off the back of that, that was when I was in Business Insider talking about the same thing. Or even like the Forbes piece I was in, again, that was off the back of a post I'd done about launching my new business on paper, which

is not so new now. So yeah, that's definitely true when I think about it. I've kind of, yes, it's the expertise and opinions, but it's that personal lens that probably helps the connection point as well.

Pippa Goulden (11:17)
Yeah

and I think it's a really interesting one isn't it because I think a lot of people don't want to reveal that much about themselves and they get worried the word storytelling can be quite off-putting for people because they kind of get they think that they have to sell something sensational for the Daily Mail and then they'll get trolled but actually

Alice Benham (11:28)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (11:36)
It's not like that, you can put your boundaries in place, you can talk about yourself or as much or as little as you want and I think you've just found a way of doing it in a way that's right for you, is that right?

Alice Benham (11:46)
Exactly that. And I think, you know, I've definitely learned all of that through action and making a few mistakes along the way of working out, yeah, like what is it that makes up that kind of, I don't like, you know, or necessarily resonate with the phrase of like personal branding, but just, I almost think of like Alice Benham limited is a part of me. And then there's this way bigger me, actually me, Alice, or all my family and friends call me Al. So I think of myself as Al as like a human and then Alice Benham or AB is like me and my kind of business capacity. And it's not.

inauthentic, it's part of me, but it's that, it's part of me. like, yeah, being myself, talking about who I am, connecting people to that can be really curated and really boundaried, but still be really authentic. I say all of this through real, you know, learning that the hard way. A few years ago in my business, I was basically an open book to the point of treating, you know, my content like therapy. Like, here's everything that's going on. You should know everything about me. You know, if I have...

boundaries that means I'm fake and then very quickly learned. The negative of that is that you then don't have any separation and people on the internet aren't always kind. And so yeah, think now I feel like, yeah, I can share things that are me, but it's in a way that feels good. Even like, I don't know if you've heard it before, that language of thinking about sharing things that are scars, not wounds, that's something that's always been really helpful for me. So.

I know that whenever I talk vulnerably, people resonate with it, but you'll never catch me talking about something that's actually vulnerable right now. What I'm struggling with right now, you might see me talk about in six months because the timing helps with that kind of personal relationship as well.

Pippa Goulden (13:18)
that's so interesting. I love that. And actually, I love what you said there about personal brand because I hate the term personal brand. I'm on a mission to try and eradicate it. it just implies that, I don't know, you have to be something that you're not. And I think it's much more beneficial to look at being aligned. And like you said, you can maybe step into the character of you as CEO or, you know, whatever you want to be, but don't pretend to be someone that you're not because...

Alice Benham (13:20)
Mmm.

So icky.

Mm.

Pippa Goulden (13:44)
That is exhausting and that is not going to bring the right people into your world. You want to bring people into your world who are, you know, aligned with you and what you do.

Alice Benham (13:53)
Yeah, 100%. It's that thing, it, of like, there's this big circle that's you, and then there'll be this little circle within it that's like what you wanna bring into your business, and great, bring that, you know, be that version of yourself. I can actually give a good press example here of when I learnt this the hard way. I got 200 pounds a couple of years ago from the Daily Mail for an article that was about nothing to do with my business. It was a silly tit-tot I'd done about my relationship that went viral, and I remember thinking this is so cool.

and no PR is bad PR and then I got it and I was like, I'm actually embarrassed about this. Like that's just not, that wasn't worth it. I realized in that, okay, yeah, we're learning what that smaller circle is.

Pippa Goulden (14:29)
Yeah, my,

no, I think that's really, you know, it's really important sometimes to do these things and learn from them, isn't it? But yeah, I often say like, tell stories that are inextricably linked to your business, going out and talking about stuff, like even like an at home, like look how nice my house is, this is because I've built this great business. Is that doing anything for your business? I don't think it is. I think there are much better opportunities for you to grow and.

Alice Benham (14:37)
Mmm.

Pippa Goulden (14:55)
to use PR to shift the dial for your business than kind of those things that don't really connect. If your story is so connected to your business, then obviously it makes sense to tell it, but if it's not, if it feels a bit unaligned, then it's because it probably is.

Alice Benham (15:09)
Yeah,

yeah. And I think on that, I also think there's something for people to think about around like not all the big names don't always bring the big results. Like I've had some really flashy collaborations and partnerships. And I think those things are really effective when I talk about them from the perspective of kind of positioning, right? It helps people to just have that little nudge of like, okay, maybe there's some legit going on here because we recognize that logo or whatever else it may be. But actually the piece of

or kind of opportunity that has got me the most, like 100 % the most money is a random podcast that I was on about five years ago. And I didn't think anything of it. And I probably had about 20 one-to-one clients over the following couple of years say, heard you on this podcast, that's where I found you. And it wasn't a massive podcast, but what it was was really engaged and niche in the community.

And I always think back to that whenever, and I think that's partly probably where I'm sometimes a bit resistant to pitch or go after some of those bigger things. Cause I just think, well, in my experience, those things have helped my reputation, but actually the things that I've seen then affect my bottom line in the most tangible way is actually some of the smallest opportunities, which I'm sure you see across the board as well.

Pippa Goulden (16:21)
Yeah, it's so true. And that's why when I'm kind of working with people from a strategic perspective, it will often be looking at what's going to give you the credibility and do that, like as seen in and give you a few of those logos. But the stuff that's going to put bums on seats within your business is usually the stuff where you can connect with people on a much smaller, more niche perspective. And I think something that you do really well is public speaking, isn't it? Like that's obviously.

something, you you've got your podcast and you've done loads of speaking opportunities and I think people probably connect to you really well through those.

Alice Benham (16:54)
Yeah, I think so. I've always loved speaking and actually a couple of years ago, I really realized it was something I wanted to do more of. It's kind of my bigger vision is to kind of do public speaking as the majority of my work, which is exciting and terrifying and things are going in that direction, which is great. But yeah, I think like one of the biggest things I've learned around that is like, how do you, before you're looking to get invited somewhere else, actually just how do you build your own?

stages. Like kind of for me that was where the podcast came from to an extent is I was like well I'd love to speak on other people's podcasts, I'd love to share my expertise and it's like well why do have to wait to be invited onto their stage? Like why don't you just build your own? The same with event speaking I was like I'd love to speak at an event so I just put on my own event, spoke at it and then from that people go you do that you're okay at it maybe I want to hire you. So yeah it's interesting to see all that kind of cause and effect happening.

Pippa Goulden (17:43)
Yeah and I think it's

really important to remember like you've been doing this since what 2016? Like it hasn't just happened overnight has it?

Alice Benham (17:49)
Yeah,

no, nine years, I was 17 when I started the business, I'm 26 now. So yeah, it was been a lot of ups and downs, a lot of hard grafts, a lot of seed sown that didn't then bloom for a very long time, a lot of seed sown that are still dead in the ground. So, know, it's long thing.

Pippa Goulden (18:07)
Yeah, but I

think it's very easy to see through the prism of social media, people doing all these glossy things and really exciting things, but they don't happen straight away. They happen because you've taken the baby steps towards them and you've kept going. Often when people come to me and they say, my PR just doesn't work for my business, I'm like, it's either because you haven't done it strategically or you have given up too soon and you've pitched yourself for a few things and you've not got...

you know, the replies and you've just said, you know, I'm throwing in the towel. But it feels to me like you just, you are very good at keeping that kind of drum beat going, like keeping going with the opportunities and finding the right things for you.

Alice Benham (18:48)
Yeah, I think similar to what you said there, I often think about the idea of how often do we give up on a plan before we've even given it the time it needs to succeed. know, someone will start a podcast is a good example. There's some crazy stats out there. I think it's over 50 % of podcasts stop before their third episode. She just tells you how many people get started and go, it's too hard or it's not giving me what I want, I'm done. And I just, it makes me.

angry not like I'm not angry at the person I'm angry for them because I just think wow you really want this thing you've given it you know 20 % of what it needed to even work and you've decided it's not worked you know it would be like 30 % into a 100 meter race you know you're 30 meters in you're at the back of the pack and you're like well I'm gonna lose so I'm gonna give up and it's like you've got 70 meters left you don't know where you're gonna end up you don't know if everyone else is gonna fully you know there's just

Yeah, more to find out. So I have a rule with myself. If I ever try something new, I've got to give it six months of consistency. It's one of the reasons that I haven't yet been really into pitching is because when I do something, I do it. Like my yes is a yes. And so for me, it would be a case of like, I am going to give this six months and I need to, you know, work out what that action needs to look like for it to work. Because otherwise we just give our businesses whiplash, don't we? We're just trying new things every 20 minutes and they never get a chance to work.

before we decide that they're all failing. So yeah, for me, consistency, you know, it's the only thing I can control. I can't control the money my business makes, what people think of me, the opportunities I get. So I try and just focus on what I can control, which is, I show up today? Have I put in the reps? Cool, let's keep doing that.

Pippa Goulden (20:22)
Yeah,

I love that. And I think also the other thing that I see from your business is that you have so much fun, don't you? like you bring the joy. I mean, I'm sure not every day it's gonna feel like that, but from what I see, it does look like you love it and you do things that you enjoy. And I think for...

Alice Benham (20:30)
Yeah, I love it.

Pippa Goulden (20:39)
It's a really important thing to remind ourselves that if we are going through this roller coaster of having our own businesses, we should be enjoying the journey, right? Like it's so important to be doing things that bring you joy and maybe scare you a bit, but ultimately that you love doing.

Alice Benham (20:53)
Yeah, without a doubt. You know, one of my biggest business values, and I love, by the way, I appreciate you pulling that out, because it's one of the things that's really important to me internally is the idea of like playfulness. You know, my work especially has connotations of it is quite strategic, sometimes in serious and big conversations. And I do a lot of work on numbers and blah, blah. But like the two truths can go exist, right? Where we're doing this really important work and I'm often a voice of a lot of tough love and, you know, straight talking, but also it can be playful. It can...

Reflect us, it can be fun. And yeah, don't get me wrong, I very rarely wake up in the morning feeling motivated or joyful to get to my desk, but I always just try within my business to find these pockets of like, how do I make this fun? Or how do I make this, even just the idea of like, how do you make things more you? I don't know if this will resonate for people, but I find one of the easiest ways I can suck the fun out of something is feeling like I can't be myself. You know, that feeling of if you're in a corporate meeting or a networking event, that's not really your vibe.

instant way to have a bad time, right? Because you just don't feel like you can be you. So one of my biggest non-negotiables is like, if I host a retreat, like I'm going to be myself, I'm going to make a silly joke or be a bit awkward or like be myself. Like I'm not a puppet. Like it's me, the business is me. So I've got to bring a sense of the personality to that. And I can still bring that personality and things still be really kind of focused and strategic and everything else. And also what's the point?

Pippa Goulden (22:14)
Yeah.

Alice Benham (22:16)
Like I've had season in business and I can talk about them happily. know, last year was a big one for me of like, it wasn't fun. And you get to the end of the year and you're like, what's the point? Like great, I paid my bills, but like I could have paid my bills in a job. So what are we doing this for if it's not also, you know, enjoyable for us?

Pippa Goulden (22:33)
Yeah, and also like knowing that it's okay to be having the fun and the joy and you can be flexible.

Alice Benham (22:40)
completely that. A lot at the moment, actually, I just keep saying to myself, like, this is it? Like, this is it? I am not aiming towards selling my business and this big exit, so this is it? Like, the day my business ends will be a very underwhelming day because I will have nothing more than what I've experienced over this period of running it. And I think, yeah, we all sometimes need that reality check, don't we? Of like, is it worth it now? I think about that a lot, you know, especially because I had...

as I alluded to, basically the whole of last year I concluded didn't feel worth it. Now this year, every week, almost at the end of the week, I'll try and remember to reflect on did this week feel worth it? the amount of work I've put in, do I feel I've got, back from my business what I want, you know, yes financially, but also in terms of the fulfillment and the work-life balance and just making it, yeah, making it enjoyable because we can be of service to other people and it's still work for us. I think for a long time I thought.

Pippa Goulden (23:27)
Yeah.

Alice Benham (23:31)
I must be a martyr to my business. If I'm miserable, but I'm serving people, then how inspiring am I? And actually I look back and just think, no one cares. Like no one wants you to be a martyr. You're just choosing that for yourself. It's a weird, weird decision.

Pippa Goulden (23:40)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I

think that links a lot to a lot of the small business owners I work with who fear putting themselves out there because they're worried about how they come across or whether people are going to be interested in what they've got to say or they maybe feel that they're too small, they're not ready yet. And so they're holding themselves back from saying the things that they really want to say and the things that they really want to do. And I know I did it myself. There was a big PR op by

Alice Benham (23:52)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (24:11)
I talk about this quite a lot, but I'd wanted to do it for three years. I'd seen lots of other people do it. And I thought, I'll wait for them to come to me. And then in October, I just thought, so this, I'm actually going to go after it. And I got it and I did it. And it's been amazing for my business. But I think it's a real example of how when we're doing things through kind of paralysis in our business, it actually means that we don't end up doing the things that we're meant to be doing and what we should be putting ourselves forward for or bringing into the business.

Alice Benham (24:39)
Yeah, in a way almost that kind of apathy of like, I'll just see what happens actually takes you out of control. And then you have those moments where you go, what am I like, what am I doing? Like I just think sometimes we need to be really honest with ourselves. Don't we just be like, what am I doing? Like I'm a real, at least for me personally, if my clients don't like this, don't get me wrong, I don't talk to them in quite this tough, lovable way. But for me personally, I really resonate with just, I just need to talk to myself in the most like honest.

black and white way and often if I'm not wanting to do something because I'm scared or sometimes it's not fair. Sometimes we're just lazy. Like, can we just be honest about that? Sometimes I'm just like, I don't want to do it. Can't be bothered, not bothered. And I'll ask myself the question of like, whatever it's I'm deciding. Alice, would you rather be whatever the thing that this is going to get you. So you say it's selling something. This is real blunt one. I'll sometimes say to myself, would you rather be rich and uncomfortable or poor and comfortable? And obviously I-

Pippa Goulden (25:13)
Yeah.

Alice Benham (25:31)
please preface to anyone listening. I know that's extreme and I don't believe those things in Mutual Exclusive, but sometimes that's the decisions we're making, right? Where it's like, okay, do you wanna send this pitch and feel a tiny bit uncomfortable and have the tiniest bit of rejection? Or do you wanna stay comfortable in this moment but not access the benefits that you could have? And I think sometimes when we spell it out like that, it's like, okay, I can kind of see what I'm doing here a bit more clearly. Our brains are just trying to keep us safe, but safety doesn't always lead to growth. So we've got to...

Watch out.

Pippa Goulden (25:58)
Yeah, totally agree with all of that. Let's talk about your book because it's a year on from you launching your book.

Alice Benham (26:02)
Mmm.

Yes, it came out the 20th of June. So yeah, this time last year I was deep in the final promo and probably quite terrified. So it's a relief to be on the other side of that.

Pippa Goulden (26:14)
Yeah,

I can imagine actually this time last year, this is like recording in mid-May, so I imagine it was like you were starting to get sweaty palms and questioning what you've done. Tell us about the process of the book because I think again you did a brilliant PR campaign around that and yeah so how did you go from the idea of the book, how did you get the book and then how did you come to launch it?

Alice Benham (26:36)
Mm-hmm,

for sure. So kind of the step one of getting the book deal was kind of to what I talked about earlier where because of actually real kind of chain effect going on, I'd been invited to create a course with a company called Domestika, must be about five years ago now. It was in COVID that we recorded it. It was that weird bit of COVID where you could travel for work and I was in London in this hotel and everyone was like in hazmat suits. It was very bizarre.

But recorded this course, didn't think a lot of it. They're kind of like a UK version of Skillshare. And that's a good example actually, like so much has come from that for me and I don't really think anything of it at the time. But my incredible editor, my publisher's Liz, she had said to her team, look, we want a book on digital marketing. some books are decided before they find the author. So sometimes it will be like, we want you to write a book. What do you want to write?

With me, it was the opposite. were like, we want a marketing book. People want marketing in a book form. We need the right person. And they were looking for someone that had quite a kind of actionable, simple approach. Thanks to probably too much of my voice and words on the internet, they found me and that resonated for them. So they reached out. We spent maybe about three months kind of going through the book proposal process. I didn't want to write a book when they first reached out. It just wasn't really on my radar

I'm not a natural writer. Just wasn't really something I was at that point that interested by but within about three days of that first email I was like I must write a book. This is my lifelong dream. This will happen. I kind of became very obsessed which is quite in my character. So yeah, got a book deal. Very, very grateful that it came about in that way because now I feel like it was the exact right thing to have been offered that and then I'll skip over the writing process because I could do a whole episode on that. I wrote the book in a week. I wouldn't recommend it. It heinous.

So then we skipped the publishing. And yeah, the kind of second part to talk about which is obviously more relevant for this podcast of the launch of it. The simplest way to explain my launch strategy is I just threw everything at it. I remember, it must have probably been around kind of March, April last year, just thinking, I can't control how this book is received, but I can control how much work I put in to promote it. So therefore, I am gonna do.

everything that I can. So I planned my own little book tour, we did, I don't know why I said little, just put myself down there, it wasn't little.

Pippa Goulden (28:46)
It wasn't little. I

remember you doing it thinking, my God, it was so full on, wasn't it? You went all over the country.

Alice Benham (28:51)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, we did of my own events, two in London, one in Manchester, one up in Edinburgh, and then ended up saying yes to quite a other events that were kind of around that journey as well. And the other thing I did, which I laugh at now because on the other side of it, I realized that I could have done it a bit differently, but hey, hey, I was learning, is I basically put a piece of content online and said, if you want something from me, I will do it.

Like I just said in this video, like I'm launching a book. I want to be visible. If you want me, I'll be there. And so I basically said, if you want me on your podcast, if you want me to speak at an event, if you want me to host a workshop for you, like anything you can think of that you want from me, I will do it for free within this kind of six week promotional period. And I was like, genuinely, I don't mean this from humility. Like I posted that and I kind of thought like, well, if people wanted me to do things, they'd have asked me anyway.

But that was a great example for me of I guess the one time I've been more proactive and realizing like, yeah, you've got to nudge people sometimes for them to get engaged. So what then ended up happening is basically the six weeks from mid-June to end of July, and then I take August off. So thankfully that was at least an end point, was like nothing I've experienced before. I have never been so busy and I hate the word busy, but I would use that word to describe that season.

I think I worked out in the end I did over 85 different things in six weeks. So like within a day I might host four free workshops and be at an event in the evening. there's, you know, and I have a business alongside this. there's clients and other stuff going on. So yeah, I mean, I did anything. I spoke at a couple of events that had two people at, you know, online work. Like I really, there was no filter. I learned a lot. I would do it differently.

Pippa Goulden (30:17)
my god.

Yeah.

Alice Benham (30:33)
But that's the beauty of messy action, right? I don't regret anything. ⁓ But yeah, it was a very noisy, very big promotion. And I did get to the end of July and think I've given it everything, fair enough. Well done me. Let's take a break.

Pippa Goulden (30:36)
Yeah.

I yeah, I hope you took a very long lie down after that. That's incredible. so what can I ask you? What would you have done differently?

Alice Benham (30:52)
I've a couple of things. think first of all, I would just have been more mindful of the length of intensity. I work really well in my business in sprints. I'm a natural kind of hyper-focused person. I love working really hard, but I cannot physically and mentally sustain that, which I've learned the hard way many times. So I should have kind of clocked that six weeks was gonna be too much.

I genuinely think if it wasn't for me being off work over August, I don't know how many more things I would have, because it just got to the point where it like, I just don't have the time. So yeah, I wish I'd kind of maybe gone, okay, what if we did two weeks? And then you can always do more, but let's just do two weeks and see. And I think the other thing, which you just don't know till you try these things, do you? But I now am much clearer on what is a yes and what is a no. There was...

I think it was probably, you know, maybe four or five weeks into that marathon, a couple of those workshops maybe where there were three people there and I was exhausted and I'd gotten up at 6am to host it because they're in another country. Like I was grateful to be there but I did maybe leave those Zooms going. I don't know that that was the best thing for me. But as I said, my yes is a yes so I did all the things I'd agreed to but now I think, you know, when I have another book...

what I will do is the same thing of going, look, what do you want from me? Cause I'm open to anything. I don't just believe, you know, I didn't, my publisher sorted all like the big press stuff. And I was like, I don't really bother me. Like I want to speak to business owners, but I think when I do it again, I'll probably do a form and you can tell me what, first of all, what do you want me to talk about? Cause quite a people didn't even want me to talk about marketing, which I didn't mind cause I was sick of marketing at that point, but didn't really link to the book or even I dunno, I wasn't super smart

I'd go to events and not bring books with me. I wouldn't even tell people about the book at the end. think it just wasn't, ironically, it as strategic as it could have been. But my rule of thumb with anything is if it's the first time I'm doing it, the more action that's messy, the quicker I learn. And so I know then next time I would know like, yeah, less time, have that form, be more strategic on what I'm saying yes to, make sure I'm linking it back to whatever it is I'm actually.

trying to promote and just be mindful. But it's hard, like I was excited and I just wasn't thinking for the future me. was also, we purchased a property on the 19th of June as well, is the context to add into this. So we were renovating and our home had no walls for that six week period as well. So yeah, it was.

Pippa Goulden (32:57)
Yeah.

just

to make life a little bit more difficult yeah but I mean well from an outsider's perspective it looked like it worked you know it was yeah it was brilliant and that's what I was gonna say ask you did you feel like it had the results that you wanted it to have?

Alice Benham (33:17)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

think so, yeah. I mean, I say I think so because books, especially if it's through a publisher, there's actually quite limited and quite out of date data that you actually get. And with anything that you're doing for the first time, know, managing your expectations is hard because you don't know what your kind of definition of success is going to be. But yeah, I was really pleased. I felt like it reached more people than I would have. That was kind of my goal was just, just want more people to know about this book.

than they would have just from following me. And my publishers were really happy. It's performed really well. We've got bestseller lists. It's had lots of kind of nice stats. think it's one of the, I think it's the bestseller actually in my kind of category and my publishers. like it's gone really well and I've, yeah, feel really proud of all of that work. But yeah, definite learnings what is just busyness and what is intentional action

You kind of have to go through it to learn what works and what doesn't. But yeah, I wouldn't change a thing because I made a lot of noise and I feel like you only launch your first book once, so gotta make a big deal out of it.

Pippa Goulden (34:30)
Exactly and now like you

say like for the next one you're all ready to go so there we go and...

Alice Benham (34:34)
Yes, everyone's going to be like, please not again. Like

we've seen you enough.

Pippa Goulden (34:39)
No, I don't think so.

I want to talk about your product business as well, because you've also got product business. And how have you found the difference in PRing that to your service business, which is effectively you? Is there a difference, do you think?

Alice Benham (34:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

It's interesting actually in that some of the bigger, shinier press opportunities I've got, and I'm just realizing this as you ask that question, have been more related to on paper, which people don't know is a stationary brand. we sell kind of like planners and different productivity things that I use within my own business. And I do wonder if there's something about that in it feels more tangible, maybe easier for people to grasp or to talk about. But yeah, I'd say it feels quite similar.

Pippa Goulden (35:02)
interesting.

Alice Benham (35:19)
I really publicly documented my journey of launching that second business, which is what got me my big Forbes feature, which was a big like milestone moment for me. So I guess I linked back to that where I'm like, I probably wouldn't have gotten into Forbes if it wasn't for that story piece.

Pippa Goulden (35:33)
Yeah, and I wonder whether it was the fact that you had something new and different to talk about in amongst the learnings. So whatever type of business it was would have given you that springboard from a new angle perspective potentially,

Alice Benham (35:37)
Mmm.

Pippa Goulden (35:47)
They're quite different entities, aren't they?

Alice Benham (35:48)
interesting like the differences of being able to we do actively pitch to gift guides and different publications that have those opportunities and you think, does, I don't know. doesn't, doesn't seem for easier, but I'm like, it's quite an obvious, like obvious fit. Whereas I feel like the more like founder led PR, you have to think of it more, don't you? It's like, what's my story or what do I know or what can I talk about? Whereas with the product, can sometimes just be as simple as like, this is a really good desk pad.

Do you want to talk about it? And they're like, yep. And it's like, cool, thank you very much. But I would say that is the only example that makes product easier than service. They are beasts, product businesses.

Pippa Goulden (36:18)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah

and I would say actually from all the product businesses I work with that when they're trying to bring out the other side which is like the founder stuff they often find it more difficult because they have got the the products kind of do the talking for them to a certain point but if you want to get more deep into the business and find other opportunities outside of just gift guide and product placement then it's starting to yeah pull to pull out all the pieces of your business which

Alice Benham (36:31)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (36:49)
If you've started with a product business, I think can sometimes feel a bit harder than when you're a service business owner and you've only got you to be the conduit for your business anyway.

Alice Benham (36:52)
you

Yes, yeah, I definitely agree. They are such different beasts and I think it's quite fun to, you must see this as well, just working with both types. Like you really get to know, don't you, the differences. I think everyone thinks they've got the harder business model. So it's quite fun. Fun to see them both.

Pippa Goulden (37:12)
Yeah, it is. And there's opportunities for both. And that's why my like all the work I do, don't specialize in service or product because I just think we learn so much from each other. And actually there's different things that we can take from different industries. And obviously with your marketing side.

Alice Benham (37:24)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (37:28)
I just want to talk a bit about how you see PR and marketing integrating together because I believe that PR is at its most effective when it is part of your marketing toolbox and you're using it. So you get your PR opportunities, but you're then amplifying it through the rest of your marketing. And again, often people will say, well, I got a piece of press coverage in this magazine and it didn't do anything for me. I was like, well, did you do anything with it? Are you using it through your marketing? Are you using it to remind your audience?

Alice Benham (37:55)
Hmm.

Pippa Goulden (37:57)
why you're great and why they're there in the first place. So how do you see it from your side of the fence?

Alice Benham (38:02)
Whenever I'm thinking about marketing strategy, where my brain jumps to is thinking of the buyer's journey. Like, you know, what is that process people go through from being strangers of your business to paying clients or customers? And if we're thinking about a topic or a channel or an element like PR, you know, what role are we asking that to play in that journey? And I, know, everyone's probably gonna have different perspectives on it, but the way that I see it is that PR can kind of do two quite powerful things. A VIT can...

A, really help with your visibility. So the very first start of that buyer's journey, right? Like bringing people into your world, helping new people find you. If that's the case and that's what PR is doing for you, you then need to think about what next. You know, I find your business somewhere. You know, I often find when I'm like reading the papers at the weekend, I'll see things in there that I'm like, that's cool. But then I'll go to look them up and I'm like, there's not, there's nothing here for me to connect with. Or like, you know, if people...

curious but not ready to buy, know, thinking about, off the back of where they might have found you, what next, where can you take them to? I think as well though, the other thing that PR can really bring to your buyer's journey, which people maybe don't think about as much, which I think is what you're talking to there, which is how it adds in

people's understanding, of what you do and maybe makes them more interested in your work. And I think that's the other part of PR that's really powerful. And if it's doing that, as you said, then it's thinking about, right, when you get those opportunities, what are you doing with that? You know, I'm guilty of this myself, or I realized even the other day, like, nowhere on my website has these key logos that, you know, to me might just seem like, well, yeah, I know that I'm featured in those places, but.

you know, to someone that's curious, maybe they listen to this episode and they go, who is this Alice woman? Let me go and have a look. You know, if I'm not amplifying the other opportunities I'm getting, I'm not giving them all of their data that they might need to decide to trust me or to kind of, yeah, maybe kind of believe what it is that I'm doing or that it feels legit. So yeah, I think about it in the context of the buyer's journey and I encourage anyone I'm working with to ask that question of anything they're doing. Like, where does this fit in and what is it doing for me?

saying what do I want it to do for me, but like, what is it actually doing for me? I think the other thing I've seen as well, and actually interesting was talking about this was a couple of PR experts on my recent retreat, and we were doing this buyer's journey work, and we were talking about how PR can also be almost a more powerful form of that visibility, and we were almost talking about it like it's a bit of a boost, you know, for imagine people moving through this buyer's journey very slowly, and they're slowly, slowly, slowly building a relationship with you.

Pippa Goulden (40:23)
Yeah.

Alice Benham (40:29)
PR can really fast track people, right? Someone might be like right on the kind of edge and PR, you know, seeing something that you've been featured in or some kind of collaboration can really just make people like zoom right to the end. So I think it can be a really powerful tool, but as you said, it's not gonna do all the work for you. You've got to play your role and make sure that the other pieces fit in around that as well.

Pippa Goulden (40:46)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. think often we're looking for something to fix something or we're looking for it to provide all the answers when no one single thing can do that. There's so many different segments that go into it. And that's why as, when you're a solo founder or you have a small team, it's making sure that you are thinking about those things in the way that works for you and the way that works for your business because you've got to wear all the hats.

Alice Benham (40:55)
Mmm.

Yes, yeah, completely agree. It's just, again, right, what we talked about at the start of this episode, right, we're kind of asking those questions of like, why am doing this and where does it fit in? And then really closely tracking the data. You know, it's not always easy, is it, to perfectly connect the dots of like, this thing gave me this much money or this much visibility or this much whatever, but just trying to look back and go, right, what did that do? You know, if I get a piece of PR, I will look at my website traffic and notice, do I see a difference?

related to that and I'm not saying that PR was a failure if I don't but I'm just trying to work out like what's actually happening here rather than making assumptions or like you said hoping it's doing something but maybe it's not. Just being honest.

Pippa Goulden (41:51)
Yeah.

Yeah, like even looking

at the last 10 clients you've had or 10 customers you've had or something, just trying to figure out where they've come from can help really shape what you're doing and what, you know, it's informing the strategy that you'll take going forwards, isn't it?

Alice Benham (42:02)
Mmm.

Yeah, without a doubt. think that's one of the most valuable questions to ask, isn't it? When someone buys our books, like I think of the two questions of like, where did you find me and why did you choose me? Cause that kind of tells you like, where do you need to be and what do you need to be saying for people to kind of connect with you? I would say for me, 90 % of my clients will mention my podcast. So every time I see that, think, okay, there's a reason to keep it going six years on. We're not stopping it yet cause it's doing something. Yeah, data doesn't lie. I think sometimes we...

a sat, know, scratching my head. like, wonder what's working. And it's like, just go look at some data though. That'll make it very easy.

Pippa Goulden (42:41)
Yeah, that is such a good piece of advice there. Thank you very much. This has been packed full of insight and action, things that we can take and just put into our business because that's the thing about this is it's all very well listening to someone talking about it all, but actually we've got to take the action to make things happen, haven't we? So thank you so much for coming on PR Made Simple.

Alice Benham (43:03)
Not at all, I've loved this. Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, I hope that people listening have been able to take something from this. I feel like we've shared a lot.

Pippa Goulden (43:11)
We've gone through

a lot and I probably could talk to you for another few hours about it but I will for everyone's ears I will stop it here but thank you so much maybe we'll do part two at some point when the next book comes out maybe it's a date. ⁓

Alice Benham (43:16)
haha

Anytime. Yes, and I'll tell you all of my, you'll

have to remind me, but be like, Alice, calm down. Do less. Learn the lessons. Thank you.

Pippa Goulden (43:30)
Wow, how inspiring is Alice? I just love her approach to business and strategy and learned so much from her just in that short interview. If you want to find out more about Alice's work, you can find her at alicebenham.co.uk. She's Alice underscore Benham on Insta or you can find her on LinkedIn and her book is the Digital Marketing Handbook and podcast is called Starting the Conversation. I highly recommend all of the above.

If that conversation has inspired you to develop your own PR strategy and deep dive into your own DIY PR, then you are in the right place. You can use the code POD50 to get 50 % off your first month in my DIY PR membership or find out more about my one-to-one work at theprset.com or connect with me on LinkedIn, Pippa Gouldan or Instagram Pippa the PR set. And I will see you again soon for another episode of PR Made Simple.