This transcript is generated with AI - apologies for any mistakes!

Pippa Goulden (00:43)
James Sills is a musician, energiser, connector and coach. He helps people to connect with their voice and with each other through transformative singing experiences. Our next teacher, James, left his job to see if he could make a go of his freelance career and make a go of it he most certainly has done. James is the author of Do Sing, the founder of Sofa Singers and a corporate team builder. From a PR perspective, he's absolutely nailed it, being featured.

everywhere from the BBC News to Stylus, The Times, GQ and so many more and now he's working on a very special project with the BBC, more to be revealed!

Pippa Goulden (01:20)
So welcome James Sills to PR Made Simple. How are you?

James (01:24)
I'm good thanks, the sun's shining. I've just had a double espresso because this is like my sleepy time of the day, kind of after lunch.

Pippa Goulden (01:32)
well there's no snoozing around here because we have got a lot to get through and so I've given the listener an intro to who you are but come tell us in your own words what do you do and where do you come from? Cilla Black!

James (01:35)
Hahaha

Yeah, blind date. Okay. Well, I mean, look, I'm a musician by trade, but I would probably describe myself as a connector and an energizer and bringing together of people the medium through which I work is singing. This all sounds very kind of convoluted, doesn't it? But for me, the most important thing is how I can help people feel connected through the singing experience in whatever form that might be online, offline, in choirs and workshops.

in community groups and corporates with charities. And yeah, the common thread through all those things is singing and bringing people together. That's what I love to do.

Pippa Goulden (02:19)
you do it very well and if you look at your PR journey it's so impressive I mean you've got BBC News you've got TED Talks you've got countless articles in papers, magazines, podcasts, brand collaborations but I want to go back to the beginning those early days five years ago lockdown happened and that was a catalyst for you wasn't it? Tell us what happened.

James (02:42)
Yeah, so exactly five years ago. March 2020. I think I'd been freelance less than three years. so prior to going full time freelance, I was a secondary school teacher for 10 years, teacher music and kind of doing a bit of choir leadership on the sides. And I gradually built up my freelance work to the point that I thought, you know what, I'm going to take the leap into the worlds of,

freelancing, entrepreneurship. And, people told me it was ridiculous because I'd just reached the top of the teacher's pay scale with our first child on the way. But such was my determination. I was going to make it work. I didn't listen to them. And then less than three years later, all of my work disappeared overnight, obviously because of COVID, as it is for so many people. You know, I came to realize that my business model was based around getting people in a room and breathing on each other. So that wasn't

going to work really in the COVID years. mean, luckily we didn't know how bad it was going to be at first. I remember firing an email off to one of my choirs saying, well, I'll see you in the summer term. We'll just take a few weeks off and it'll all have blown over. And so in the meantime, I thought, whilst we're, at home for a few weeks, why don't we get people singing online? this was a very off the cuff decision. I think I probably...

posted something online. I'd seen the singing in the streets in Italy and said, look, we need to keep on singing. This is really, this is going to be a difficult time for everybody. And people responded positively and talked me into it. And without having ever used Zoom before or ever run an online singing session before, I decided to call it Sofa Singers and set up what I thought was going to be a one-off session. And it...

Five years later, we've just celebrated our fifth birthday and we've been doing two sessions a week since March 2020. So we've done over 500 sessions now. So I absolutely hit on something that I never thought I was going to be hitting on in terms of a concept. I suppose what that did for me in terms of me and my reach is that it took my work from working kind of geographically based, know, so I live in in North Wales and so historically my choirs have been in North Wales and

Merseyside and Cheshire. But actually through Sofasingers, I was now reaching, well, I think at that first session we had about 25 different countries represented. And so suddenly rather than having 50 people in the village hall, I had 500 people in the global village. And that felt really, really exciting.

Pippa Goulden (04:55)
It really was and it took off so quickly, didn't it? Like you were able to get a lot of media attention from it. And I think it was because it was a positive story in what, was an incredibly doom and gloom and scary time. And I think you were of the moment and you were able to capitalize on that, weren't you, from a PR perspective.

James (05:14)
Yeah, definitely. I suppose you'd say it was an early adopter. I remember on the morning of the 18th of March, the morning after our first session, I think Sophie Sings was kind of second on the newsreel or third on the newsreel on the pooled radio news in the morning.

it absolutely was something that gave people a bit of hope, a bit of positivity, a way that people could see through what was going to be a difficult time. Of course, we didn't know at the beginning of lockdown, how long it was going to be, how profound the effects were going to be. But I think, it was really important to give people something positive to cling on to. And yeah, it was an interesting time for me in my kind of freelance career because six months

Prior to that, my book had been released, which was really, you know, if you're talking about my reach in my PR, it was a really big moment. my book was released as part of the Do Book series, which is already an established series. when I launched the book, I did some PR on Radio 3 with Katie Durham, someone who I've maintained a really great relationship with. Maybe I'll

talk a little bit more about that later. you know, it felt like things were really starting to kind of happen a bit more and that my reach was widening. I was doing talks at literature festivals, I was starting to work with corporates. And so I was kind of starting to supplement my work with choirs with getting the message out there to a much broader audience. And so that when lockdown happened, there's a sense of, oh, okay, I've had all this momentum

and now everything's kind of stopped. then in a way, Soap Singers kind of has built on that a little bit, I suppose, rather than just some random guy with a guitar. At least I had a book out, which maybe gave me some ounce of credibility, you know.

Pippa Goulden (06:44)
Yeah, you were able to capitalise on some of the stuff that you'd already done. I think the thing that has always struck me about you as well, because I've known you for a long time through friends and family, but we've worked together as well. And I think the thing that you have always stuck to is your why and your reason for singing. And I think that's really important because it's driven you in your business and it's helped you make decisions, hasn't it?

James (06:47)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (07:10)
the process and I think it's also made you stand out against other people who might be doing similar things to you. So can we talk about that? Because tell us what your whole mantra is around singing and what it does for people.

James (07:23)
Yeah, there's so much

expectations of what singing should be or shouldn't be and what voices should sound like or what voices shouldn't sound like.

And so what I kind of try and do is just kind of step back from all of that and be like, do you know what singing is just like one of the most human things that there is. we've always sung together. We've sung around fires. When, when we were cave people, we sing at big football matches. We sing at festivals. We sing at the beginning of life, at the end of life. Like singing is really important.

and I kind of feel it's more important now than ever, you know, in this so-called age of loneliness to connectors. And I know as a singer myself and someone who still regularly performs and tours,

how I feel when I've been singing with other people and that sense of connection and that sense of being in the moment. And I think what all my work is trying to do is just to kind of open that door to other people and say, look, come on into this world or rather just like, let's just reconnect with this feeling that we've all had.

We should be doing it more. We've all got a voice. We can all participate in singing. And that's my my kind of baseline. And in some ways that really flies against a lot of the kind of singing establishment, which is about, you know, barriers to entry about certain language that might prevent people from engaging people being told they haven't got the right type of voice. They don't sing in the right type of way. You know, there's so much of my work that's about giving people permission to use their voice and building up trust.

with them.

I didn't come through like a youth choir or vocal studies wasn't part of my music degree. So in a way I've always felt like a little bit of a maverick or someone coming in from the outside, but I've actually come to realise that that's actually been a real strength because I don't have a lot of the baggage I don't think that I might have had if I'd have been schooled in a particular singing tradition. You know, so there are probably purists out there who really dislike what I do and that's absolutely

fine because I think the more I've defined what I'm about and the more I stand for what I'm about, think the more reach and the more people I've connected with and you might say that I've been more successful. So I think there's definitely a lesson there about being true to yourself and being true to your values and not always looking over your shoulder what other people are doing because if you're yourself then there'll be people who connecting with that and that's been really important for me.

Pippa Goulden (09:29)
Yeah, absolutely. And I guess the whole thing where you're prioritising the focus on singing for mental wellbeing and joy and connectivity, has that then allowed you to say no to things? Has it helped you to say, actually, that's not aligned with who I am and what I'm doing?

James (09:45)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, so often we're defined by the things that we say no to as opposed to the things, or as well as the things we say yes to. And so I think, you know, the more I guess as time's gone on, you know, when you first start out freelancing.

and people who are new to freelancing will certainly resonate with this. You say yes to almost everything because you just want to spread yourself far and wide. You look at what opportunities are out there. Make sure you're making enough money and all those things. And I'm lucky in that as time has gone on, I've been able to kind of be a lot more intentional about what I say yes to, what I say no to, what I'm curious about, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah. And so just as an example, when Sofa Singers those first few months, which were crazy, it was all over international TV. was pieces in all the broadsheets. I probably had about half a dozen.

approaches for TV work. None of them quite came to fruition. But there was one particular one, and this is one that actually came closest to being commissioned. And it was a really big American production company who were putting together an hour long special and they wanted it to be like sofa singers, but for teams of people across America. So you'd have key workers all singing together and you'd have teachers all singing together and all that kind of thing. And then they were going to bring celebrities who were going to be

the mentors And they were like, James, we want you to be the Bob Geldof figure, just kind of bringing it all together and running the sessions. I was like, OK, you know, and they were throwing all the numbers around if this gets commissioned and all that kind of stuff. And then and then they started talking about and then, of course, there'll be a competition at the end of it. And then the winning team, I'm like, hmm, OK, this doesn't sound like it's going to be the right fit for me. Because, you know, one of the things.

that I'm really aware of is that so often in popular media singing is about competing and about jeopardy and about yes or no and that's something I really try to distance myself from and I thought you know I can't on the one hand say look singing's for everyone it's about everybody

it's about being inclusive and everyone having a voice. And then me putting my name to a program or a concept where it's actually about competition. So I actually had it written into my contracts. I had to do NDAs and all this stuff. it was crazy. But one of my clauses was that if there was a competitive element, then I was going to be out of it. And, know, and if you had got commissioned, I'd have stood to have lost a huge amount of money. But for me, I was like, do know what? In the long term, it's more important that I've got my integrity and I stick to what I believe about singing because yeah,

this could be a one-off job like a flash in the pan, but actually people will remember that and you know, I think it's really important to stick to who you are and to really embody what you believe.

Pippa Goulden (12:13)
Yeah and I think that authenticity has then allowed you to carry on Sofa Singers in all sorts of different ways through post lockdown up to now. one of the questions I have for you is why do you think, obviously you're five years in of Sofa Singers now but we're well out of lockdown, what is it about Sofa Singers that's kept it going? What do you think it is that you offer with it? Because I just think it's so fascinating.

James (12:30)
Mm.

I think what Sofasingers offers people is twice a week they've got the opportunity to just do something that's joyful, that's kind of light and playful but without being goofy, that's quite profound and heart-led but without being overly sentimental. I think we kind of get...

balance of all of those things. Like it'd be really easy to go overboard with Sophie Singers and be like, let's all just sing this song and feel the love for each other and it'd be a bit kind of OTT. Some people will respond to that, but I think a lot of people in our community maybe wouldn't,

So I think we strike a balance with all those things, but it is genuinely a place of positivity, but not kind of toxic positivity and kind of playfulness, but not goofiness. And I just think people really enjoy it. It's a respite from whatever they're doing in their daily lives.

They get to connect with like-minded people and it's a really diverse community in terms of age and background and geography. And it just feels really wholesome, you know?

Pippa Goulden (13:37)
It really does,

it is amazing. And so how has work evolved for you since lockdown? Because it's taken you in some amazing directions, hasn't it?

James (13:45)
Yeah, it's definitely taken me into some interesting directions. You know, so I've got three young kids and that really informs a lot of what I say yes to a lot of what I say no to. So I think.

like for many people, lockdown was a chance for you to kind of reflect and think, look, when things go back to normal inverted commas, do I want to just go back to what I was doing before?

So in terms of Sofasings, I've put certain things in place that have made it more manageable for me.

I've now got someone on the team who works part time, So I think we've got to a place where everything feels quite streamlined and kind of quite easy.

day to day, like still decisions need to be made and sessions need to be run. But I've just got a really brilliant team. And I think that's been massive for me. So throughout the last year, I've had a lot more support in the background, which has then really freed me up to, embark on other ventures. it's not so much time, but it's just kind of the headspace and energy as well.

I think I realised that I didn't want to be working evenings and weekends nearly as much. as a choir leader, that's essentially what you're mainly doing, is like people coming along in the evenings and at weekends to sing, which isn't great for family life, but also it just isn't great, I don't think, for your kind of personal energetic boundaries.

And I remember reading Oliver Burtman's brilliant book, 4000 Weeks. And there's a little bit in there where he talks about time and time not being equal. I used to think, oh, isn't this great? I've got a Tuesday afternoon off and everyone else is in work and I can just go and walk up a mountain on my own. And then I'm like, oh, it'd be much nicer to do that on a Saturday when my mates were free so I

made a vow to myself that I would start to move as much work as possible into

the daytime Monday to Friday when the kids were at school to make perfect sense. And then, I'm a big football fan. I want to go watch football the weekend. I want to spend time with my kids. I want time that's not work. And so I think the new kind of avenues of my work, so my work with corporates, doing keynotes, doing workshops at conferences and away days has really facilitated that, which is fantastic. So I now run less in-person choirs than I used to.

I've been really intentional about what I've been saying yes and what I've been saying no to, and then, there's been other things like I wrote a column for Psychologies magazine for a year, which was really, really great. So again, getting that message out to a broader audience. So I suppose another part of it has been just kind of taking.

my message around singing and around human connection and taking it on a more global scale, I suppose, really, whether it's through talking on podcasts, whether it's through my talks at my TEDx talk, whether it's working with corporates and that's taking me all over Europe and over to America as well. And yeah, and so I still got my my kind of community choir that I run on a Wednesday evening, you know, which I've been running for 12 years. I love it. But I'm not looking to set up more geographical community choirs. I'm just looking.

to more avenues to help get my message out in a way that is in alignment with my family life and my energetic boundaries as well.

Pippa Goulden (16:29)
Yeah, but I think it's also a really good example of how you can still do what you absolutely love, but in a way that works for you. Just because traditionally to work in music and choirs is weekends and evenings you you've changed it and you've done it differently. I think something you've done really well is get known for what you do. And it's what I talk about a lot with my members and my people who do my get known program and my accelerator course. But I think

you're a great example of somebody who has intentionally got known for what you do through your work and through your expertise. How have you found that? How have you done that? Can you talk in a bit more detail about that?

James (17:07)
Yeah, I a bit like what I said earlier, the more I've narrowed the focus, the more I've kind of stepped into it and the more people have been receptive to it. if I kind of think back to when I was in my early 20s, I did a music degree and I inhabited so many musical worlds. I was playing orchestral trombone, I was playing jazz trombone, I was playing guitar in bands, I was doing all kinds of stuff. And then...

gradually there's just been this kind of increased focus around

singing, you know, so when I was teaching, the thing that I really enjoyed was actually working with the choir each week and getting whole classes singing. And then even within that, the world of singing, I've tightened the focus even more and it being around participation and connection and supporting wellbeing. And each time I've tightened the focus, I feel like I've, I've got better at what I've done and people know a bit more what I'm about. Like

is not just about singing this guy, but is actually about human connection and how we gather and community and all that kind of stuff. So I think, it's become almost a bit of a cliche, but you it's so good to niche down because then you know what you're about and then other people know what you're about. I suppose, the risk.

with niching is that, okay, well, is there enough work there? And maybe it's better if I'm just a generalist and I do a bit of this and do a bit of this and do a bit of this. But I've certainly found like the more distilled my message has been, the more avenues it's reaching. so even though, like I say, that the focus is pretty sharp now, I think around.

singing for connection, singing as something that's inherently human. It's about actually spreading the message. So whether that's through writing, whether it's through speaking, whether it's through podcasts, then there's the actual.

Delivery of itself, know whatever form that might be, you know workshops choir rehearsals online offline So for me There's all these like different incarnations of embodying the message if that makes sense

Pippa Goulden (18:58)
yeah, it does. the opportunities that have opened up for you as you've honed have been.

proportionate to the of the growth and the scale of the people that you're reaching, haven't they? So the more, like you say, the more you've needed, you've opened up things like you've done Ferncottons, Happy Festival, you've done TEDx talks, you you've done some amazing things with it. It's just been amazing to watch. And I also think, I know we did a strategy session really early on in this, didn't we? And we've done other work together since.

James (19:14)
Yeah, happy place, yeah.

Pippa Goulden (19:27)
It's been strategic as well. think it's really important that people realize this hasn't all just happened by accident. You've been intentional with what you've done as well, haven't you?

James (19:37)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because, you know, there's only so much time and so much energy and, you know, there are so many things that you could shift your focus and your attention on. And yeah, absolutely. And I suppose, you know, if you were to like, you know, just follow my Instagram feed, you'd think that all these things just like totally landed in my lap. But actually,

like you say, it's been really intentional. So if I think about some of the new things that I've done over the last 12 months and some of the things you've mentioned, almost all of them, I've kind of instigated, I've sent the first email. I know that's one of your things, just send that email. know, so for example,

I'm one of the visiting practitioners at Charlotte Church's retreat, The Dreaming in Mid Wales. They did a shout out for practitioners and I thought, do you know what, that really aligns with what I'm doing. It's all about wellness and bringing singing into the more general sphere. So I ended up being invited to go and do a singing workshop down there. I didn't realise I was...

going be doing it for Charlotte Church. So it was just me and Charlotte in the room. Come on Charlotte, let's do some singing. Yeah, I know. So she was absolutely lovely. She really liked what I did. And so I'm a visiting practitioner there. And that just, you know, that came from the first email. But I guess I had enough to back up, you know, with the book and the talks that they could say, okay, well, he's got a bit of, he's got a bit of weight behind him type thing. You know, it's not just.

Pippa Goulden (20:34)
Wow. my goodness!

James (20:52)
something randomly out of the blue. But likewise, with Fern and Cotton's Happy Place, they were doing a shout out and I thought, you know what, I really like the podcast, I love her message about how she's demystifying, well-being without the woo woo type thing. And

I could see myself aligning with the festival, drop them an email and they're like, great, love what you do. So I ended up doing both of those festivals last year, meeting some lovely people, met Fern, met Donna Ashworth, the poet, and got on really well with her. So I really enjoyed that side of thing. If I'm in a festival or a place or even a business where I feel aligned with the people there, it's just really great. I really like meeting people. I like connecting with them. I like maintaining those contacts. And I guess you could say

say, that's a bit network or strategic, but generally, it's just like, you're really nice. let's just keep in touch. This is great. You know, I like what you do. You like what I do. So like going back to Katie Durham, for example, who presents on Radio 3, I went on and talked about my book in September 2019 when it came out and that was part of Music for Wellbeing Day at the BBC. So that's really great thing for me to plug into. I got on really well with Katie. We literally had like 10 minutes.

Discussion on air she followed me on Instagram and then six months later when I was saying, oh should I get people singing online? She dropped me a message saying look, this is a great idea if you if you do it I'll get on radio 3 you can promote it on there. I was like brilliant. Okay, fantastic You know, she likes what I do. I like what she does, we can help each other out and then fast forward to a few months ago I know we we might talk about in a minute, but I've got this new project with the BBC taking football fans and

teach them to sing opera. And so just messaged Katie, I was like, look, I don't know if this is of interest, but I've got this new project and she's like, yes, let's get you down. Come down and talk to me about it. And we reconnected. So that was just an example for me of,

just kind of like who you're connecting with, like who, who's maybe in a different space to where you're in as well. Like, you know, so Katie Durham isn't doing what I'm doing and I'm not doing what she's doing, but we can kind of help each other out. And so like with this new BBC project, I've been working with so many different people behind the scenes, like TV producers with composers with Leslie Garrett, the opera singer, and these are all people who are bringing their unique offering to the table. And then.

in the middle of all that, I'm like, well, do know what? This is what I'm bringing. And that's great. I don't have to be apologetic about it because you're not apologetic about what you're bringing. And I think that's been a really good process as well because I think sometimes when you're kind of, you know, freelancer and entrepreneur, you kind of get used to doing everything yourself and you think you have to do everything yourself.

And actually sometimes it's really nice when you don't. And you can just focus in on the thing that really is your thing that you're really good at, you know.

Pippa Goulden (23:29)
there's two things that I really hear from what you've said here. One is you've put yourself forward for stuff and you've taken the action. You've not just sat there going well I I've done I've done so for singers I've been on the telly like come on where is everybody you've actually gone right

what's next, what's coming next, where can I take this now? And you've gone out and you've done that. And that's what I think other people need to hear because it doesn't just come to us if we sit and wait for it. And the second thing is the relationships. And I think it's so important.

to remember that everyone that you're dealing with from a PR perspective is just a human being like you are. I think in this country we put media on some sort of pedestal and think they're like some sort of other being. They're not, they're just human beings like you and I trying to get their job done. And if you've established a relationship with somebody and you have nurtured that and because you're human beings, human to human, that can create so many more opportunities for you. So you've done it brilliantly.

James (24:04)
Mm.

Oh, thanks, Pepper. Yeah, I mean, on that first point about, just putting yourself out there or just sending the email. that was how my TEDx happened. You know, I sent an email to think it was the TEDx Newcastle. I filled out the form and they got back to me and said, look, we're full for this year. We'll consider you for next year. And then about six months later, I got a phone call.

from the organizer of TEDx Newcastle, who was also the organizer of TEDx Manchester saying, can you come and speak at TEDx Manchester, please? And I was like, yeah, when is it? And he was like, in three days time. Someone had dropped out and they said, we want you to close the whole event. We want you to get the whole audience singing. So there'll be 2000 people. And I was like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'll do it. You know, so many times I've said yes before.

I feel like I'm ready. And that was just an example of those two things, suppose, like sending the email, just sending the email to TEDx out of the blue. for me, I was like, you know what, that could be really good next step for me and to help get my message out. And then, I wouldn't say it was a knock back, though, just like, no, not this time. I'm like, fine, I kind of forgot about it. And then they just, you know, just dropped the kids off at school and I got this phone call saying, can you.

come to Manchester in two days and do a TEDx talk And I could have said, I'm not quite ready, know, consider me for next year. And then the moment's gone. So sometimes you've just got to go with the moment, go with the energy of the moment. Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (25:42)
Yeah, it's brilliant. Now let's talk about what you're doing now. Tell us, it's just incredible. Tell us about the project that you're doing at the moment.

James (25:51)
Okay, so the name of the project is Bantam of the Opera, which is a wonderful pun on Phantom of the Opera. So the Bantams are Bradford City FC. Bradford is my hometown where I was born. And Bradford is also UK City of Culture for 2025. And the production team at BBC Radio Leeds came up with this concept of Bantam of the Opera. I think just because it was such a good name. But basically the concept is taking 50...

Pippa Goulden (25:56)
You

James (26:14)
football fans, Bradford City fans, from the stadium to the stage and over 12 months to form them into a choir to teach them to sing opera and there's a whole host of superstar ambassadors and collaborators on board. I've already mentioned one of them, Leslie Garrett, but also the football kind of pundit and ex-manager and player Chris Kamara, Andrew Lloyd Webber's on board and so even before we'd got a choir

there was huge amount of TV coverage. So I was on the one show with Chris Camaro launching it on the pitch. Leslie Garrett was on TV on And Lloyd Webber. And suddenly this thing that was a small BBC commission has now turned into this huge kind of project that is getting coverage across all of the kind of main BBC entertainment programmes.

You know, we are doing our first performance live on the Jeremy Vine show in three weeks time. We're going down to London to collaborate with the BBC Singers and sing at the Barbican. We're singing on the pitch at Valley Parade in front of 20,000 people. And these are people who haven't auditioned musically. They're just curious about singing. so, yeah, so already it's been an incredible journey and it's not even been a month in terms of the rehearsals. We've had three rehearsals.

We've had TV cameras, a load of them. There's been all this footage and it's just, it's really joyous actually. you know, it kind of feels like the right next step for me. It's a beautiful meeting point of a lot of the things that I'm really passionate about. So obviously singing, opening access to singing, but there's also a big kind of mental health focus within the choir. it's also a big.

part and parcel of the football club and I've been a big football fan all my life and often in my keynotes I talk about how my first singing experience was on the football terraces. So that kind of brings that in. And also it's my hometown and that's kind of reconnected me to my Yorkshire roots as well. So, you know, this kind of maybe goes back to what I was saying earlier about knowing what your unique offer is and you know what it is that makes you you because I'm sure there are lots of other choir leaders who could have delivered this project, but

what a lot of people have said to me, like my friends and family, when I told them about it, like, wow, this was made for you, like bringing all these elements together, you know, and also the fact that I have, the last few years, you know, done some stuff with TV and on radio. And obviously there's quite a big element of that. So there's going to be a podcast series, lot of TV performances. Last week, I tried my hand at presenting for the first time. They sent me down to Cardiff with a cameraman to do some presenting, you know, so it's a massive learning curve for me.

But I'm really, really loving it. It's really, really great. And the exciting thing is we don't really know where it's all going to kind of end. We know that the project runs until the end of this year, but there's, you know, almost every day there's new people asking us to collaborate, to do a TV program with them. You know, there's so many big names in the mix and it's just, yeah, it's quite thrilling.

Pippa Goulden (28:58)
It's so exciting and it's just the best example of how when you get stuck in and get yourself out there and chip away and chip, chip, chip because these things don't just happen overnight. You haven't just woken up and somebody's gone, hey James, come and do this project for us. It's happened because you've been keeping going and keeping going, keeping going over however many years.

James (29:19)
Mmm.

Pippa Goulden (29:22)
and it's bringing you to this place in a way that literally I couldn't write a script for this. Like when we did our first strategy session five years ago, I couldn't have gone, well, I think actually what you should really be aiming for is this big BBC project with XYZ. I mean, it's literally written in the stars for you, isn't it? It's amazing. But it's because of all the work that you've done to get to this point. And I think it's really important that people listening know that it doesn't just happen overnight to people. Because I think there's a...

James (29:27)
Hahaha

Pippa Goulden (29:49)
There's a myth out there isn't it that you can create things and it just happens and it doesn't. It's because you've worked at it and you should be really proud of that work you've put into it.

James (29:58)
Yeah, I mean, you they say there's no such thing as like an overnight success, you know, maybe there is like in some small cases, but actually quite often it's just putting the work in, putting the work in, putting the work in and then, you know, an opportunity presents itself that may well, open you up to a bigger audience or take you to the next level, whatever you want to describe it. And, you know, for me, it's just felt.

like one step after another there's been certain things like when sofa singer skyrocketed and whatever but for me I just want everything to kind of naturally flow on from the last thing Which isn't to say that, You can't explore new territories or whatever. I guess for me it's always a balance of Yeah, being strategic about what you're saying. Yes to what you say no to and knowing what

what you're shooting for, but also just leaving a little bit to the universe and leaving yourself open to what might come about, you know, because if, if I'd got kind of 2025 or really tightly planned out and this is what I'm to do, you know, I've had to like rearrange a lot of my diary for this Bradford project. And also, you know, keep a lot of existing commitments penciled in because TV schedules change so quickly.

because I've kept myself...

flexible, suppose. And as a business as well, like I've never wanted to, take on loads of other people or kind of franchise my choirs. Like I really enjoy it being quite lean and nimble in that it's essentially me in my business. And I have amazing people who support me, the sofa singers team and working with people like you and there's, you know, there's vocal coaches who I go to when I need input with there. so there's all kinds of people who I do go to for support, but essentially it's me.

Which then means, you I kind of can be quite agile when something like the BBC comes in, you know, because it's happened so quickly and it's going to take up a lot of my year. But I think, again, that kind of goes back to me deciding quite early on that, you know what, I'm quite happy with it mainly being me and not necessarily building up a massive team or doing other things that will weigh me down a little bit.

Pippa Goulden (31:42)
Yeah.

I love it. So what would you say to somebody who's thinking about wanting to get known for what they do, doing their own PR, start building their profile? What would be your tips? What have you learned along the way?

James (31:58)
Yeah, that's a great question. What would I have told myself eight years ago? I think writing has really helped me, whether it's writing articles, writing my book, writing posts for LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever.

to actually clarify your message a little bit. I think it's really important to be intentional, know what you stand for. And often that will involve knowing what you're going to say no to and what you're

either what you're standing against or what you're rubbing up against or, because there's no point being vanilla. There's no point being for absolutely everybody and trying not to offend everybody, So like I say, for me, a lot of what I talk about flies a little bit in the face of traditional thought about singing in choirs and elite singing in particular. And that's fine, because that's how I position myself. And so I think

having a degree of confidence in the position that you take is really important and knowing why you stand for it.

knowing what you're curious in, knowing who you want to reach. And I think...

If you're not sure of those things, I said, I do call on people for support and I've had some coaching sessions over the years, both with a one-to-one coach and also I did a coaching qualification a couple of years ago and that was just so good just for getting clarity on a lot of these questions. And so maybe what I would say to somebody is actually think about just getting some coaching sessions or there's some great resources out there like the Squiggly Careers book and the podcast and there's so many great resources out there.

But yeah, it's, I mean, it is a process as well. it's taken me almost 10 years of freelancing to get to this point, not in terms of just the work that I'm generating, but just in terms of like the clarity on my message. And I think sometimes it has to be the passage of time as well to just give you that clarity.

Pippa Goulden (33:37)
Absolutely, it's an evolution, isn't it? who you are when you start doing something isn't necessarily who you'll be at the end of it, but that's, it's all part of the fun And I love what you're doing so much because it is so obvious how much fun and joy.

and happiness you are having through your work. And that's what we should all aspire to be doing. And especially if you're doing it for yourself and you've started your own business for whatever reasons, enjoying doing it is really important.

James (34:02)
Yeah, I mean exactly. It's

like that should be the reason that you start your own business. And sometimes it's just really easy to lose that, isn't it? In the day to day and the overwhelm and uncertainty and all that stuff. But fundamentally, you should be having fun running your own business really.

Pippa Goulden (34:11)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

James (34:21)
Maybe it kind of helps me because my wife is also an ex-teacher. So when we met we were both full-time teaching and just kind of knackered and, you know, bit overwhelmed. And now we've been able to kind of create quite a different lifestyle for ourselves. you know, sometimes we might be like having a coffee at 11 o'clock on a Tuesday morning, sit in our backyard, listen to the birds and we're like, God, if we were teaching, we'd been to like our fourth lesson by now. And, you know, and that's not to like...

say that we like really smug and that everything's always perfect but I think it's also really important just to stop and just notice these things and be grateful and just remind yourself why you're doing it in the first place

Pippa Goulden (34:57)
Exactly. And so what is next for James Sills? I mean, we don't really know, do we? Judging by everything that's happened to you so far, but you know, what's coming up for you?

James (35:07)
Yeah, I mean, for rest of this year, really, there's going to be a very big focus on the band's with the opera project, which is great. But I'm wanting to really kind of develop and kind of refine my offer for corporates and keynotes, particularly around human connection, particularly since COVID, there seems to be real need and interest in that.

in the corporate space, which I think is really important, particularly with more more remote working and all that kind of thing. And actually we know that singing it is the great super bonder and super connector. So I'm really interested in refining my offer there and working with more organisations on that. I've got an idea for a second book.

But again, this might just have to kind of wait until the BBC thing's done because, I'm not going to try and do everything at once. and there's just kind of scenes of other ideas that if.

they come to fruition, that would be wonderful. Obviously I'm doing a lot of work with the BBC and speaking to loads of producers and all that kind of thing. And like I said, I'm trying my hand at presenting and it's been a dream for lots of years to do a singing travelogue, either podcast series or a TV series. So I'm just kind of putting that out there now, maybe manifesting that, but exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know if you've seen it, but there's a wonderful...

Pippa Goulden (36:12)
Come on, universe.

James (36:18)
series that looks at the world and exploring the world through the prism of food with Anthony Bourdain, who's sadly no longer with us, but it was just the most amazing series where he would just travel to pretty much every corner of the world and kind of understand a bit of the world through the people that he met and through the food that he ate. I would love to do something similar with singing, kind of traveling, meeting people, whether it's singing with,

with traditional groups in South Africa or an evangelical church in the Bible Belt or singing with Inuits in Iceland or whatever. anyway, that's a bit of a pipe dream.

Pippa Goulden (36:54)
I

would be watching that and if you need an assistant runner person to come with you, I'm happy to come. Sounds amazing. Right, come on universe, let's make this happen. I think that sounds amazing. It kind of feels like it should have been made already, like why hasn't it? So let's get that made. James, you should be so proud of yourself. It has been, like I say,

James (36:57)
Hahaha

Great, so there we go, I'm throwing that out there now.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Pippa Goulden (37:16)
I've been watching from the sidelines for a very long time and it is a joy to see everything that you're doing. So long may it continue. Thank you for coming on PR Made Simple.

James (37:26)
Thank you. Thanks for your support, Pippa, and your cheerleading. It's so felt and appreciated. It really is. And I know that you do that for so many other people as well. And that really can make all the difference in giving people that confidence to go that next step. And I feel that you really celebrate in everyone's achievements that you're working with. So thank you. I appreciate that so much.

Pippa Goulden (37:47)
See you soon, bye!

James (37:48)
Bye.

Pippa Goulden (37:50)
hope that chat with James has inspired you to see how it really makes a difference when you just keep going and putting one foot in front of the other when it comes to building your profile and getting known for what you do. It doesn't happen overnight but as James is testament to show, really magical things can happen when you put your mind to it.

You can find out more about James's work at James Sills online. He is Jsillsmusic on Instagram or james-sills.com. His work is absolutely incredible. And since we recorded that, the things that they are doing with the Bantam of the Opera is just amazing. He's been on The One Show, on lots of TV since, and so it's just really interesting to follow that journey. So do check out what they are doing.

if James's story has inspired you to do PR for yourself then you can find out more about me at the prset.com I am Pippa the prset on Instagram or Pippa Goulden on LinkedIn. You can come and join my DIY PR membership which James is in, you can work with me one-to-one with my accelerator and I also have my Get Known program as well that happens several times throughout the year. So

Come in, find out more, use the code POD50 to get 50 % off your first month in my DIY PR membership and just get in touch and connect with me and yeah, let me know what you would love to be featured on because it's all there for the taking as James has shown us. I will see you again very soon for another episode of PR Made Simple.