This transcript is generated by AI - apologies for any mistakes

Nicky Elliott (00:01)
Hi, thanks for having me.

Pippa Goulden (00:03)
pleasure I'm so excited to have this chat with you. Tell the listener who you are, how you've got to where you are today because you've had a few iterations of Wilder haven't you?

Nicky Elliott (00:16)
Mm hmm. Yes, I'm Nikki. I'm 41 and I'm from Hertfordshire. yeah, my my business now is called The Wilder Collective and it is an online community for female founders and freelancers. But it is an evolution of a unisex children's clothing brand that I started after the pandemic, which evolved into women's wear. And that was something that I did off the back of a 15 year career in events and sort of

doing the whole leave your big job and find something to do for you kind of thing. since 2020, yeah, it's been a wild journey.

Pippa Goulden (00:56)
I love it. so tell us a bit about Wilder Ones because that was your clothing brand and it's obviously that your business now is a totally different thing but I think Wilder Wands did lots for you in terms of establishing you in the small business community. It's how I got to know you. I remember following you and thinking she's doing some interesting stuff and I know you

Nicky Elliott (01:06)
Yes.

Pippa Goulden (01:19)
I remember talking to you about your PR experiences with that so tell us a little bit about that business and how did you get it out there, how did you get known and what was your PR experience with it?

Nicky Elliott (01:22)
Hmm.

So I didn't have a clue what I was doing on social media or anywhere else except for the fact that my background in events was broadly events as a marketing function often. So I did have quite a good head for marketing and understanding how to reach people, but mostly through events. And then we would work as an events agency with other like marketing PR agencies bolted in. So I knew when I started the brand that I wanted to have

it to have a really slick aesthetic, that the brand itself look aspirational. I started it as a unisex kids' clothing brand because I have a girl and a boy and I wanted... all colours are for everyone. I got extremely frustrated about what was out there. And I had seen lots of brands doing well on Instagram in the pandemic, small businesses growing. And I was just like, I want a bit of that action.

So I did just tons of research while my son was having his naps because I was on maternity leave. So I was like researching, finding an agent in Portugal, finding a factory, finding someone to do my tech packs, like zero, zero, zero experience in fashion. And the way that I got known was through absolutely a platform of zero people and being really, really intentional about my content from the beginning. So

the sort of pillars of my brand were that the clothing was organic, that it had ethical foundations in terms of the factory, and that it was unisex and colourful and breaking gender stereotypes. And to begin with, really those are the only three things that I talked about. And I spoke about them in a really intentional way. I would come on my stories, they would relate to whatever post I was doing. And, you know, I started with zero followers and got to 100 followers. And by the time I wound up

brand. So I did that I grew that organically. didn't, I did do a few ads for the clothing brand once I pivoted into women's wear, but broadly I'd grown organically, met incredible women doing the same thing. Not not clothing brands, just their own businesses and was like, this is a thing that I would not have known about these women out there doing these amazing things. Love it. And so when I decided to wind up the brand in a really challenging market marketplace when I've lost quite a lot of money,

I just felt like letting the platform that I had really worked hard to build up, letting that go felt a bit rubbish. And also I didn't want to lose the connections I'd made with all these great women like you and other people. And so I decided to start my podcast called Women's Business, where I speak to founders, female founders about their journeys because of that feeling I had of...

why did I not know these people existed? I want to hear their stories. You you can't be what you can't see. say it all the time and I want to show women and girls and boys everywhere that women can start and run their own businesses and make them successful on their own terms. And they are doing it all the time. And the podcast has grown gradually over two years and that's continued to grow my platform. The work I do off the back of the podcast is what's led me to founding the community. So

Yeah, it has been very, very organic, but it has been, there has been strategy to it at points. Like it hasn't been super strategic where I was like, I'm going to launch a clothing brand and in four years I'll have a podcast and a paid community. Absolutely no chance I would have guessed that. But when I've seen opportunities, there has been strategy to taking advantage of those opportunities.

Pippa Goulden (05:20)
Yeah and I think you're a really good example of somebody that we should all be doing is you see an opportunity and you go for it you don't just think about it and overthink about it and wonder whether it'll work you're throwing that mud at the wall and seeing what sticks and it is sticking.

Nicky Elliott (05:34)
Yeah,

someone said to me quite early on with my podcast, she said, what makes you think anyone will listen to it? And she didn't mean it in a horrible way, but it was just like a confidence thing, I think that she was like, I wish I had that confidence. And I was like, I've not thought about that. I don't care. I just really want to do it. I want to listen to it. I want to hear their stories. And I felt confident enough that I did have an engaged audience of whatever size that

a few people might listen to it and I just took it from there because I love doing it. I didn't know I was going to find a revenue stream off the back of it but I have so it was totally worth doing.

Pippa Goulden (06:09)
Yeah,

it's a really good lesson, isn't it, in that, you know, we do overthink these things and actually until you do them, you don't know which direction they're going to take you in. you know, it's an exciting, it's exciting to be on that journey rather than just thinking about an end goal all the time. It's actually enjoying what you're doing as you go through it.

Nicky Elliott (06:28)
Yeah, and I think we're all ingrained into thinking the way that we've been taught to think about careers and work. But when you do work for yourself, you are agile. So if you want to try something, you can try it. It's up to you. It is totally up to you. big, big successful people, successful people in sort of traditional senses are like...

iterate and iterate and iterate, try again, try again, you you see the big shiny success, but there were all these failures that came before. And so for me, being a small business, it's like, yay, I can just try stuff. I'm sort of trained to think if that didn't work, that was a failure. But actually, you know, I tried the clothing brand that didn't work. But it brought me here. So

Yeah, I love the freedom of being a small business and being like, chuck it at the wall exactly as you say and see what sticks.

Pippa Goulden (07:25)
Yeah, I love it. And so your experience of PR through the two businesses, let's talk about that in a bit more detail because obviously we're here from a PR perspective. So tell us about the PR you did through the clothing brand and then we'll talk about the PR you're doing now.

Nicky Elliott (07:32)
Yeah.

Yeah so I got a point to the clothing brand, I got to a point with the clothing brand where I felt like I should do some PR. I had run Facebook ads, sold out of some collections and I was at a bit of a tricky point. It's really hard to scale a brand like that and I paid a PR agency a lot of money to...

do a couple of months worth of PR for me. And they did say you need to do more than a month, you need to do a bit. And it was so expensive for me at that time, like really challenging to pay for. And they got me in, I think it was Hello Magazine, and contacted loads of influencers. And most of the influencers that they contacted, I already knew.

or had already gifted to or already had relationships with just from me being like, can I send you something? Which I tried to be strategic about anyway, because in the spirit of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks, also when you're a clothing brand with really small order minimums, like every piece of clothing I send out, I feel, because I should be getting the money back for that. So I was quite careful. didn't want to, I didn't have dozens of items to send out. I just didn't have the money for it.

And I was like, is this it? You know, there's no real strategy here. Clearly to get me in Hello, she just pulled a favour because she was like, I actually need some press in this mix. And it did nothing. And none of the influencers that they knew that I didn't know did anything. Because the ones I'd contacted, I had thought they were right for my audience and I did better with them. And some of the ones they suggested I already knew and I said I've gifted to them.

pointless and so it was just such a lot of money for nothing.

Pippa Goulden (09:37)
Yeah, and unfortunately, this is a story that I hear repeated over and over again. And the problem is that it comes, it makes the founder think that PR doesn't work for their business. And it makes, it means that they've spent an awful lot of money, like you say, getting results that actually they were, that you were doing it yourself anyway, but you know, because you.

Nicky Elliott (09:49)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (09:59)
there's this kind of image that we need a PR agency to do PR, it's the only way that you can access PR. And don't get me wrong, I am not anti agency, I do client delivery for the right clients. But usually when I speak to brand owners, when PR hasn't worked for them, or in inverted commas hasn't worked for them, often it's because it was too expensive and it wasn't the right time for them to invest that money. Or it wasn't done strategically in a way that's actually going to drive

Nicky Elliott (10:21)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (10:27)
the right opportunities for the brand or the PR hasn't managed your expectations in terms of what the PR is actually going to do for you and you'll say well if I invest this five grand or whatever it was into it I will get the I will get that money back in sales and sometimes the PR is not going to deliver that for you in that way so you are not alone in having that experience of PR but actually what you were doing was you were doing it yourself in a way that was right for you in your business.

Nicky Elliott (10:47)
No.

Yeah, completely. And, you know, I had even written a couple of articles for small publications that I knew and stuff. And I thought, well, I'll just turn this up to 100 then if I'm going to pay someone. But of course, they were go, they just didn't have eyes on my business in the way that I did. So they didn't actually understand my strategy at all and who I was going for. And I think I, and I've said this to you on my podcast, I

that sense of smoke and mirrors around PR and that there is this little black book of contacts that and it's simply a case of you know them and I don't and I get that but I'm like but you do know them and that's your power and that's what you can charge me for but you know even that it's just like no they they're not going to put it in unless it makes sense to them that's the bottom line and the best way of getting a sense if it makes sense is for you knowing

the kind of press that you want. So I learned the hard way, for sure.

Pippa Goulden (12:00)
Yeah

and a lot of people have learned that way as well and like I say agencies can be the right route for many businesses absolutely but I think what a lot of businesses don't realise is that there is a different way of doing it and you don't have to have a big agency budget, you don't have to have that little black book of contacts because like you say I've worked in PR for 20 years I've got great relationships with journalists, not every journalist out there you couldn't possibly but

they won't feature my clients unless I've pitched a good pitch and you can learn how to do that pitch yourself as you know because you are now DIYing your PR for your new business and I guess it's like an evolution of what you're doing and you're doing a brilliant job and I think also what I see with you and what you do with your PR is you don't it's not that traditional PR that actually shifts the dial for your business is it?

Nicky Elliott (12:34)
Exactly.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I think, you know, because I host a podcast, I'm happy to have a nata and I've been asked on lots of podcasts and I've also pitched to be on other people's podcasts and that works well. And those kinds of conversations, as you know, when you get to tell your story and someone gets to sort of listen in on a proper conversation, it's a really good way of getting to know a person and a brand and their story. So that definitely works for me, especially as my business is very heart led, like

It is about my members, but I really do facilitate and love my community and give it a lot of love and attention. So if you don't like me, you're not going to like it. so yeah, I have, you know, I've done bits and bobs of press, but I would say, you know, public speaking and podcasting and more of that kind of newer stuff. And I mean newer.

not it's actually not new is it but newer in PR terms that's the kind of stuff that that seems to work for me and that I'm better at getting because I'm still a bit rubbish at the actual press bit.

Pippa Goulden (14:04)
had some lovely press coverage, you a whole glossy magazine with your face on the the cover didn't you?

Nicky Elliott (14:10)
Yeah,

I did have some good press ops through the PR set, absolutely. But I think I need to be more strategic with that. That's where I can be a little bit scattergun. I see something and I'm like, hey, but I would do better to spend a bit of time and put a bit more oomph into it.

Pippa Goulden (14:31)
Yeah, I mean, I think we could all do a bit more, couldn't we? Let's go back to some of the stuff that does work for you. So I think you're brilliant at using your podcast as a PR tool, and that's something that I talk a lot about is not just giving out all of this content that you want to kind of say things. It's actually strategically.

Nicky Elliott (14:35)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Pippa Goulden (14:50)
the podcast

works for you to bring new people into your world and then for you to cross-pollinate into other people's worlds, you're dancing on other people's dance floors as my friend Lucy calls it, that's a brilliant tactic and then you've done lots of speaking ops as well haven't you?

Nicky Elliott (15:05)
Yeah, I mean, I think that having a podcast is useful for speaking ops because you have a profile of sorts and people can hear you speak if they want to, you know, in advance. So they're like, what does this person sound like? What do they speak like? What is their sort of specialist subject? How confident are they? You know, and all of that stuff. And yeah, I think the whole cross pollination thing.

when you have a conversation with someone, proper conversation with someone, they really firmly are in your network after that. You haven't just done this cold outreach. You've both taken the time to have a conversation and it's a bit of a quid pro quo because you've promoted their thing and they're just genuinely much happier to support you. So that is absolutely not why I started the podcast. Let me be clear. That has been this absolutely amazing.

thing that I didn't even think about or foresee. I was like, well it would be cool to talk to that person and hear their story and share their story, but I didn't know the positive benefit that it would have in terms of just getting my profile out there a bit more broadly and like you said, making people much more willing to kind of work with you and help you out when you do need it because they've sat down and had a proper chin wag with you.

Pippa Goulden (16:27)
Yeah, I love that. The deep dive, which is really powerful, isn't it? It's much easier than putting a Instagram post out and trying to say everything, which you just can't do. The networking side of things as well. Obviously, you are leading a community and it's an amazing community. I highly recommend it for anyone listening. But it's also something that I talk about as a PR tool. It works really well. It's something that I've spent a lot of time over the last four years since I launched the business.

Nicky Elliott (16:38)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Pippa Goulden (16:57)
in networks because I enjoy it and I do I love that connecting people and that recommending people and helping people out when they're stuck but it's been a really strategic part of my PR to get myself known for what I do and I find that it's the networks where I get recommended by a lot of people that I've never worked with and that's always a sign that you're doing well in your PR so you must see that within the Wilder Collective all the time.

Nicky Elliott (17:25)
my god, I just love it. that we explicitly don't have a selling thread in the Wilder Collective because I don't want to attract people who just want to come in and sell their wares and really not engage with it at all. Otherwise, I'm happy if people don't engage with it at all for months and then they're like, I need something because that's what I want it to be. I want it to be that it's there in your back pocket. You don't have to engage. I don't want it to be a job. But if you join it purely to sell,

it's not the right community for you. What is incredible for me is when someone is like, all right, I have got budget and they go to the find a freelancer thread and they find people or skills swaps happen or, you know, one person was like running an award show and she used three or four people from the community to help her like put slides together and content together. And then she shared that with all of us and was like, look at all these amazing people who've done this. So

Having a community like that is so reassuring for you as a member because this is a trusted crew. Like if they're in this crew, you know that if there's someone in there who can help you, you can trust them. Or if they recommend someone to you, that's a trusted recommendation. And you pay for their services and you know that you're supporting a female founder and a woman in business. So it's just this, yeah, beautiful thing. And it's one of my favourite things about the Wilder Collective because it's not...

what it's there for, but it happens anyway. It's just so powerful having a network like that. And someone said it to me the other day, she was like, it's absolutely not what I joined it for. I joined it for that connection and for that sort of water cooler chat. even when I'm not commenting, I'm still reading it, I still check in with it, and I love just seeing what's going on. She was like, but I've got loads of paid work out of it already. I'm like, well, that's just the icing on the cake.

Pippa Goulden (19:16)
Yeah

and especially with your focus on women business and women lifting each other up and creating work that works for women, for you that must be such a positive benefit to it all.

Nicky Elliott (19:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's just, it's massive. And there's so many women out there doing it. I know I said it at the beginning with the podcast and stuff, but I had a call with a guy this morning who wants to talk to me about my big event, which I know we're going to talk about. And I said to him, well, have you not thought about offering your services to like female founders who were at the beginning of their journey? And he was like, not really. I'm sort of looking for like mid-sized businesses. And I'm like, we all need support. You we had this conversation just this week. So many of us feel stuck.

We know we need to take on external support. We don't know where to start. And his business could be really helpful. And equally, there's loads of people in the community that are at that stage of their business and need little bits of help here and there, be it with a website or with some social media. And those people are in there and that is just, yeah, glorious.

Pippa Goulden (20:20)
Yeah

and it has a ripple effect I know somebody joined my membership yesterday who'd been recommended to me from someone else that I think was in the Wilder Collective and they're not even in it like it does you get known for what you do because you're part of these communities and I think the other thing is

The word network is just so off putting to some people, isn't it? And I wish we could think of a different word because I run a local network in in Oxstead where I live and it's been great for just a...

just getting away from my desk and meeting other people in my community. But it's been a really good source of revenue for me. I've worked with some incredible people, local business people doing brilliant things. And I think the word network puts so many people off, but it really shouldn't, because you can find your tribe wherever you are, can't you?

Nicky Elliott (21:05)
Yeah.

Absolutely. I feel really neutral about the word network. It genuinely doesn't give me the ick, but I know it does give so many people the ick. For me, it's a really literal word. It's just a network of people and how they knit and web together in exactly the way that you said that someone's been recommended and they're not even in it, but they know me and blah, That is what a network is. It does ripple. It does go out. And for me, it's just completely neutral as a word, but absolutely. And I couldn't put too fine a point on it.

Pippa Goulden (21:15)
to you.

Nicky Elliott (21:41)
absolutely fundamental to your business. I mean, it's absolutely the thing that makes a difference. And I am where I am now with the business because of a network of listeners that I grew around the podcast that I was like, I get to chat to all of you and I love it. And I want you two to speak to each other. And that's where that sort of thing became enmeshed. And yeah, I just love it.

Pippa Goulden (22:04)
Yeah, and I

think also almost a step before that, you were brilliant at building a community around the wilder ones as well. Like you kind of brought people into your world that way. So it's obviously something that you're naturally, you know, naturally good at. But I do think like somebody was saying they came to our meeting for the first time the other day and she sat in the car for 10 minutes before she came in because she was so nervous. And I think acknowledging that that is an experience that lots of people do have when it's going into these places.

or joining a community. And you see it in the Wilder Collective, like people will say, I've been lurking for months and I haven't said hi yet, because people are nervous about it. But I think you've got, with all of these business things, we've just got to put on our big girl pants and go for it because the opportunities that they create. And actually, I get so much joy from them. And if I'd stop myself from doing that, because I was scared, that I wouldn't be experiencing all of that great stuff that come from them. It's a bit like you in the podcast.

Nicky Elliott (22:40)
Yeah.

No, and

I had a woman recently who said, I really want to join and I've got the email, but I'm just feel really intimidated by everyone in there. And I just need to put my big girl pants on. And I was like, listen, there's absolutely no pressure to join, but don't be put off by being intimidated. Like don't let that be the reason that you don't join because it is so not intimidating. But I think that's where that ick from the word network comes from and the kind of

stuffy, stale, people in grey suits kind of shuffling about and not knowing what to say to each other and it's just not like that at all. It's absolutely glorious.

Pippa Goulden (23:40)
Yeah

and you do in-person events as well don't you so there's the in-person and there's the online community and tell us about Wider Live - this is exciting!

Nicky Elliott (23:50)
So first of all, just as a tail end of that previous conversation, what I want to say to anyone is, you said you're obviously someone who's quite good at that in terms of like bringing people together and networking and stuff. My oldest friends think it's one ginormous lol that what I do for a living is essentially speaking to people and bringing them together because my, I make this joke to my family, my personal PR is very poor.

So I'm actually a really lovely person with bad PR because I sort of was quite shy when I was a teenager and stuff, which is when they, when they knew me and that shyness as a teenager came out as sort of like being a bit stundoffish and being a bit cold. And so that, that became like Nicky's a bitch and

I think they just all think it's hysterical that what I do for work is meet people I've never met before and treat them with real warmth and enthusiasm and it's genuine warmth and enthusiasm as well. So for anyone who does feel icky about those situations, like I genuinely am quite a shy person. It is about finding the right people and that is where the idea for Wild Alive came from, which is, you know, what you just asked me about. I went to a big conference last year.

and I spent a lot of money on the tickets and getting there and I sat there for the whole day and it was fine and I chatted to a few good people but when I left I just felt really pissed off I was like this cost me a fortune what did I learn? nothing and don't get me wrong when you go to an event like that I'm not talking about learning in terms of like making notes and stuff to implement I just like there was no feeling there was no echo of like

this was really good for my soul, this was really good for my business, it was good for networking and chatting to people. I just felt really empty about the whole thing. And it's because the agenda of this event is set by two young child free men and yet most of the people there were women. I was like, they are doing really well these two young child free men, so absolutely I'm not knocking them. They don't need my opinion. But I just personally felt like, come on, we need an event.

by someone who understands the people in their audience and where they're at in their life because some of the stuff they're talking about I was like as if it just doesn't touch me at all. It was not feasible for where I am in my life, my business. And so I had a rant about it on my stories and a lot of people replied and said, well, you've confirmed what I thought about this event or I nearly went and didn't and I'm glad I didn't and you you should do that thing you're talking about. And I am. And I just

I suppose it's very soon to just have had the idea and then do the event. But what I do have in my back pocket is 15 years in events. So I don't have that fear that a lot of people have around events, a bit like around PR actually, where it's this kind of like, what even is it? How would I do it? Where would I start? I know how to put on an event. So that wasn't a blocker for me. Really the only blocker was like, can I make it work financially? And can I get anyone to come?

And using my network, the answer is yes on both just about. I mean, I've, I've secured an unreal deal on the venue through my former events network, but that is just going to elevate the event to another level. It's so slick. And I'm like, yeah, let's do it.

Pippa Goulden (27:12)
Absolutely.

just love it. I love the fact that you've gone, this wasn't the event that I wanted to go to so I'm just gonna put it on myself.

Nicky Elliott (27:33)
It's a bit bold, isn't it?

Pippa Goulden (27:36)
It's not,

it's brilliant and we all need to do things like this because if it's not right for you, it's not just you, you're not the only one, it's not gonna be right. Like you say, you had that feedback from people, so.

Nicky Elliott (27:48)
And, and

yeah, why not? Why not me? You know, I've had that conversation with people on my podcast, so I have to like, put into practice some of what I learned from these amazing women I talked to. And I'm like, why not me? When I first put it up that I was going to do it, there was a woman who got in touch with me who runs another event. And she was like, well, you might really struggle with this. You know, it's really hard to get sponsorship. And it was probably coming from a genuine place, but it wasn't coming from a supportive place. And I was like,

don't piss on my bonfire, I'm doing it. I'm just, I just have to do it. And I nearly did give up on it because I was like, I can't find any sponsors and I can't figure out how to make it work. I sat down with an amazing woman who said, you've got to do some left field thinking here and slice it and dice it differently. And that's when I thought, hang on a minute, I have got this amazing network. Like, yeah, I want to pay them all fairly because...

that's really important to me. But what if in year one, I do pull some favours and I'm really transparent about the favours that I have pulled. And so that's what I'm doing. And the women that are involved know me, trust me, know what my values are, know that in year two, I will do everything I can to pay everyone properly and got on board. And it's just like, if that is not evidence of how powerful a network is, I don't know what is.

Pippa Goulden (29:08)
Yeah, exactly. I love it. And also I think something that you're doing, whether it's strategically or not strategically, is talking about things that you're pushing the boundaries of things that you are happy to talk about. Does that make sense? So you're talking about women in the workplace and the patriarchy and things that are happening, because I think they are genuinely part of who you are, but it's also really helping to

you to stand out, I think, in a lot of noise and I think it's helping to attract people into your community and into your network that actually really also stand for what you talk about. Does that make sense?

Nicky Elliott (29:50)
Yeah,

yes it does, definitely. And I think for anyone, it doesn't matter if your audience is 10 people or 10,000 people, you really don't know who is watching. Only last week I got an email inviting me to an event at the Houses of Parliament for female founders who support gender equality in the workplace, essentially, which is PR going to that event. And I was like, who are you? How do you know who I am? But...

Pippa Goulden (30:13)
That is.

Nicky Elliott (30:19)
They said, thank you for the work you do around fighting for gender equality in the workplace. And I was like, you're welcome. Like you're watching. Like, okay. Yeah. So that's, that's it, Pippa. Like, yeah, you don't know who is watching. And I know it's hard shouting into the void of Instagram and all the other social platforms. I know it's really hard to keep putting yourself out there. And I do think it's important to do the work that you feel drawn to.

Pippa Goulden (30:30)
I got goosebumps.

Nicky Elliott (30:46)
And ultimately with the podcast, I didn't start it because I thought I was going to be on one about feminism or on one about internalised misogyny or the mental load, which is a lot of what I talk about now. I started it to hear those women's stories. And when I started hearing the stories, there were themes and there were threads and lo and behold, those threads related directly to my life because I am a middle aged woman in society experiencing everything else. And so that happened really organically. And I did then.

get really stuck on it because I was like, I've got a fire in my belly now. I'm having these conversations day in, day out. And so I put that out there, you know, this conversation came up. What do you think about it? This conversation came up. How does that make you feel? Does that resonate? And lo and behold, that does resonate with people in exactly the same way it resonated with me. And so that's where it's come from an honest place.

And I think that's what's been really important in my kind of organic growth and just knowing I'm on the right path because growth on those platforms is really, really slow. Like I'm four years deep, I'm shy of 10,000 followers, but I would genuinely be happy to have 500 if just those 500 people joined my community. I don't need to sort of chase those numbers. It's about the real conversations that I'm having with people that I just love.

Pippa Goulden (32:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

And I think there's two things there that are really important. One is that everything that you're saying is authentic. It's not like you've seen someone else talking about something and you think, God, I need to bring this thing into my conversations now. It's really authentic to who you are and who you're becoming with what you're doing. And you are making yourself discoverable. And that's something that I talk about all the time from a PR perspective is it's not just about

Nicky Elliott (32:10)
Yes.

Pippa Goulden (32:29)
you pitching something. It's like I'm starting to talk about this a bit more but I have a bit of an issue with the term visibility because I think the problem is

Nicky Elliott (32:31)
Hmm.

Pippa Goulden (32:39)
that we think we can take a photo of ourselves from a visibility perspective and then we'll be seen. And it doesn't work like that. What you're doing is you're taking the action to make yourself discoverable, to get yourself known for those values and the things that make you authentically who you are. And that is making you discoverable. And that is creating PR opportunities for you because you are being aligned with your why and who your target audience is. And I think that's a really great example of how that is having that

effect and the problem with it is it's not a quick win is it it's it's a slow build and so that's why I think people do give up on their PR too soon because they think I've tried it a bit and it's not working but actually what you've done is four years if not a bit more of becoming this person and I and I think it's really exciting

Nicky Elliott (33:12)
No.

Yeah, and I mean, think I've said to you, like I'm, and I said earlier, I'm not good at going for the sort of like traditional press ops or not that great at converting them. And I just want people to come to me. I'm really like, can they just find my stuff? And no.

Pippa Goulden (33:42)
I'm heya!

Nicky Elliott (33:48)
Like sometimes that does happen, you know, people come to you and say, I've seen you talking about this, can you write an article about it or yada yada yada. But normally that's because you may have an existing relationship or you've written something for them before, so you're already on the radar. And then occasionally someone will come along and say, we want to invite you to this event because the work you do in this space and you have no idea about it. So what you're saying, yes, it is a long game, but absolutely it does work. the double benefit of it is

is that you get to do work that you genuinely feel sort of like drawn to and inspired by so that you're not just churning out content for content sake, which is soul destroying.

Pippa Goulden (34:23)
Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. I'm so excited for you. I just think there's so many opportunities that are coming your way and we don't even know what they are yet. No, exactly. And so what would be your advice to people who want to do their NPR but haven't quite got round to it yet or are putting it off or are worried about what people will think of them? All of that stuff that holds them back.

Nicky Elliott (34:32)
No.

Yeah, I mean, I think what I struggle with on PR front is time, time blocking. I'm going to try and start doing a monthly or like every two weeks, kind of just focused hour on my PR because I have the resources in the PR set and I just don't take advantage of them.

Pippa Goulden (34:53)
Mm-hmm.

And you have the accountability session in the PL set as well, which is exactly for that.

Nicky Elliott (35:10)
Yes, I know. Yes.

So that's exactly the sort of stuff I should do. In terms of... This might be controversial, but in terms of like people being reluctant to put themselves out there and I would just say, fucking get over it. Just get over yourself. Like I said to you when you were going to Top Draw to do your talk and I said, with love, this has been the best thing that someone said to me when I've got to do public speaking.

Pippa Goulden (35:27)
Me too.

Nicky Elliott (35:40)
it's not about you. People are there for themselves. They're there for what they can find out from you. So that's freeing because then it's like, yeah, you're only as good as the talk you're going to deliver. They don't care what colour your lipstick is or what you look like or even if you trip over a few words, they don't care. They're there for themselves. And, you know, as you said to me the other day, like no one knows your business as well as you do. No one sees everything that you're doing. And if

you email them and they're not interested and they either ignore it or say no it won't impact their day beyond that that's gone so just just get over it and ask because you do get no's but occasionally you'll get a yes and the yes will be worth every single no or ignored email

Pippa Goulden (36:29)
I love it. That is amazing. Brilliant. Thank you. Yeah, totally. Totally. You get the no's or you get the not yet's, you know, that's absolutely fine, but you get the yes's too, but you don't get them unless you do put yourself out there.

Nicky Elliott (36:30)
And you and I have both seen that work.

Yeah, exactly. just think, come on women, especially women. I know there might be men listening to this, but women can really fail to back themselves and then they get caught in that trap. And I'm like, come on, let it go. Put yourself out there. What's the worst thing that could happen?

Pippa Goulden (36:48)
Yeah.

I think you said to me just before when I was getting nervous about going on stage, go on there with the confidence of an average white middle-aged man. I was like, that's a very good point.

Nicky Elliott (37:13)
Yeah, because the stats around the way that men will put themselves forward for things from jobs to, you know, boardroom tables, there is an innate confidence that isn't their fault, it's just built into them by patriarchy and the system that they exist within. They have an innate confidence. Great. That sounds lovely. I'll have a bit of that because it's just it's constructed. So construct it for yourself.

Pippa Goulden (37:37)
Exactly.

Totally. Send the fucking email. Thank you for coming on the podcast. It's been amazing to chat to you and yeah everyone go and get your tickets for Wilder Live now. If there's any still available, go to the Wild

Nicky Elliott (37:41)
Absolutely.

Go to thewildercollective.co.uk,

check out the event. It is an event by, for, and featuring female founders one day in October, and it's just gonna be the highest vibes available.

Pippa Goulden (38:04)
amazing and I can highly recommend the Wilder Collective too. Nice to see you. Bye.

Nicky Elliott (38:08)
you. You too, take care, bye.