This transcript is generated by AI - apologies for any mistakes 

Lucy Woolfenden is the founder of The Scale Up Collective, a marketing business working with fast growth tech startups and scale ups focused on helping them understand their audience and implement the right marketing strategies to achieve growth.

She's also worked in-house at places like Starling Bank, Yolt and Skype and is one of my most cleverest friends. If you've been around me for any length of time when I'm teaching people how to do their PR, you'll often hear me refer to my friend Lucy's phrase of dancing on other people's dance floors. And this is that infamous Lucy who I've now quoted more times than I've had hot dinners, I think, in the last four years.

Lucy Woolfenden (01:18)
Okay.

Pippa Goulden (01:21)
So we're here today to talk about

dancing on other people's dance floors and how you can use strategic partnerships and collaborations in your own business as a PR and marketing tool to tap into new audiences and help you to get known for what you do. So welcome Lucy to PR Made Simple.

Lucy Woolfenden (01:30)
Hello, I'm so excited

to be here. And just as a health warning, I did actually steal that Dancing with People's Dance Laws from someone else, but I can never remember who it is. So if somebody feels that they own that phrase, please do admit, because I've been using it for years.

Pippa Goulden (01:54)
It's fine, I think you can have it. I think it is officially yours after you can claim it after it's Scottish rights. Lucy and I go way back, we went actually went to school together and we have danced on many a dance floor together. But we are here today to talk about the business dancing on the dance floors. And I want to do this episode because it is such an effective tool, isn't it? For when you're starting out, when you're looking at how to kind of reach new audiences. So.

Tell me about your own experience and also tell us a bit more about your business and what you do.

Lucy Woolfenden (02:25)
Brilliant. So partnerships has been a massive part of what I've been doing really for the last 15 years. When I was at Skype, we did everything through partnerships and we'll talk a bit more about that later as we went into startups. It was really a great way to build trust. And as we started to scale up, my first clients really were from partnerships with the likes of Tech Nation and Sea Eagles who were working and had clients that were similar to the people that I wanted to find.

So I would bring my expertise in marketing and give them free workshops and free webinars. And in return, I would get leads and awareness from a trusted source. And that is really what is amazing about partnerships is words of mouth and referral is the strongest way that you can ever find new clients, new customers, whatever business you're in. And partnerships does that. It's that transfer trust that says, if that business wants to partner with you,

you must be as good as them and it's such an easy way to get started. And you can just start so simply, can't you? mean, this is really being on your podcast is is a type of partnership in a really simple way just even recommending each other on socials is a great way to get started and see if it works.

Pippa Goulden (03:39)
Absolutely, and I think that's something that's really relevant there is that you can start small, can't you? It doesn't have to be this, you know, when I'm talking about collaborations to people, sometimes I can see them go, I can't afford to create a whole product line or, know, whatever it is, but there are lots of ways that you can start small. How do you recommend getting things going? What would be your tips on that?

Lucy Woolfenden (04:03)
think the most important part, especially when you're just getting started, is to be clear and confident about what you bring to the party. There's this really lovely analogy when it comes to partnerships around dinner parties and everybody brings something different. know, someone will have a venue and someone will bring the wine or the starters and the main course. And it's what do you bring? And it was similar when I was, working with Sea Legal in the beginning. They had thousands and thousands of clients and I had maybe two or three. And

It was about I could bring the marketing expertise that they needed. So that was helping their content strategy. And they were helping me by giving me the email address as a remedy that signed up. This is maybe pre-GDPR. But, you know, that was, it's all about what is it that you can bring and being really confident about that. And then thinking about who does have similar audiences, you know, who are these complimentary brands?

Pippa Goulden (04:41)
Yeah.

Lucy Woolfenden (04:58)
that you're not directly competing with that are talking to the same people. And therefore you can support each other and actually help each other because you're both going in front of each other's audiences. I think starting really simply is key. Like even if it's just doing a quick, you know, talking about them in your newsletter or posting, like guest blogging. So writing a blog for theirs and seeing how that goes and what the reaction is.

And seeing if it works and seeing if you really get on in that way. And then you can go to something that takes a little bit more work, like a joint masterclass or a joint webinar or a joint competition, if that's particularly B2C works well. And then thinking about with some we have referral or affiliate relationships. So, you know, if I recommend you, I'll get X or U, I actually don't, I feel that doesn't work as well. It sort of degrades some of that trust.

So yes, it's just starting really simply and building out is best. And if you are, I think what's really important where I've been tripped up in the past, especially when I was brand side, is where you're the small brand and you're working with a bigger brand and there's loads of enthusiasm at the beginning and they're going to do so much. You're going to be across all their socials. You're going to be on their newsletter. You're going to be going out to thousands and you sort of get caught up and you don't get all this in writing.

And then that team gets distracted because they're actually doing something else and suddenly you're not quite aligned with their goals. And all those promises and good chats just don't happen. And you've put a lot of effort and time and maybe money into it as well. So I think even if it's a really simple agreement, once you're really starting to put time into something called money or energy, you need to just get a clear agreement in writing. So there's no presumptions.

and it doesn't get difficult down the road.

Pippa Goulden (06:53)
Yeah, I think that's really good advice because it's one thing doing an Insta live with somebody, isn't it? And that being a quick thing that you can, you know, doesn't take up much time or brain space or energy to launching something together and having an agreement so that you're all on the same page. I think something that you've talked about there as well is that if you are, if there is bit of an imbalance in the size of the business and the brands or the people working together, I think it's really important, like you said, to not forget what you

bring to the table. I think as small business owners we often underestimate our own abilities and potentials and the imposter syndrome kicks in and we start thinking why would they want to do anything with me but actually you are helping them with whatever it is content or ideas or you know you are bringing things to the table and it's really important that you step into that and come into a partnership feeling like you are an equal partner in it isn't it?

Lucy Woolfenden (07:51)
so much and it's so easy to just go, look at me. Like, it's so nice that they're helping me. And it's not that at all. It's got to be, what do I need to get out of it? And asking, you know, you don't get what you don't ask for and making sure, you know, even simple things like you'll know this from PR, but if they're featuring you, make sure they're linking to your website and linking to you and making sure they're just telling people what you do and not just using your content their content strategy.

And I think from that also, one of my learnings on that was that people just don't always think about it. It's not that they're not trying to be helpful. It's just that they haven't thought about it or thought it was important. So, you know, you can ask in nice ways, but again, making sure at the beginning these things are set and it's not something you have to ask at the end and feel awkward about or get into a difficult conversation with because it's all set and agreed at the beginning. What that.

exchanges.

Pippa Goulden (08:48)
Yeah, what it looks like. And actually, it's much easier to have that conversation upfront than to be really annoyed as you're going through something thinking, they're not giving me what I thought we'd get from this. Or then having an awkward conversation at the end where it was obvious that you were misaligned on what your objectives were for it. So having those conversations upfront is actually a much better way to have a collaboration that works for both sides.

Lucy Woolfenden (09:13)
I had a difficult one once and this is when I was in house and it was with a film partnership and they said, it's no money, it's just joint bank, joint awareness. And then we'd already started and done a lot of work by the time the paperwork took a while to come through. And a line hidden in the paperwork said that we were agreeing to spend 100,000 pounds on paid media to support it. And I was like,

was never part the conversation. And it was really difficult, but we'd already put in maybe 100 hours of teamwork into it. So it was that hard point of, you know, it's so far down the line. They didn't say it, but it was an expectation on their side that it was obvious. It wasn't obvious from our point of view. So it was really difficult. So it's just one of those those heads of terms that only needs to be really simple. TrackGBT can write it for you. You don't need to pay.

Pippa Goulden (09:44)
Cheeky!

Lucy Woolfenden (10:09)
lawyer, but it's just get that in writing and be set. then that also gives, so with somebody like me that's not necessarily that confident, it gives me the confidence because it's already in writing and I don't need to worry about it.

Pippa Goulden (10:20)
Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And if you were thinking about doing collaborations starting out, so you're obviously not going to be working with brands that are expecting you to spend a hundred thousand pounds on media, don't worry. But what would be your recommendations How do people find the right brands or businesses, whatever kind of collaboration it might be, but what are your recommendations to find the right people to collaborate with?

Lucy Woolfenden (10:31)
Yeah.

I always think there's a bit of a tipping point where you're the one going out and asking people and then suddenly you start getting asked yourself and you've got to do that part. So I think the easiest way and the way we do it with clients is we ask either their customer base or their potential customer base who they listen to, who they take advice from, who they respect, who they follow. And that's a really good way of giving you a list of people that you can go and ask for.

Also, it's just networking, people you know, we're both part of Be My Founders Rise and there's been amazing collaborations through that. As well as Found and Flourish, I've worked with those two communities, it just really was amazing, especially when we were doing accelerators and laser joint partnerships and webinars. So really just finding people that are similar to you and starting, and almost, especially when you're first getting going.

almost doing it with somebody you already know so it's easier and you can gain confidence and then keeping those as examples so you can say to people you know like I did this with somebody it was really quick and easy we got some really good results you know followers went up I got a couple of good leads and quality leads from it really helped sort of build that confidence as you get going. I mean I love a good research tool

I'd also just, I ask perplexity these days or chat, do you read too? Oh, it's like the research version. so I'd ask them who else somebody follows and give them examples of like, who's Pippa Gordon, Who else would be like, and then that would give me some examples. What I've seen recently as well, actually, and I was on a podcast last week and it came through from the cold outreach and they'd done it through

Pippa Goulden (12:07)
What's perplexity?

Lucy Woolfenden (12:29)
a drip of fire on the outfit, which are really simple tools where you can put in your target audience and send out LinkedIn connections and messages. So they went out to say a couple of hundred people and asked the same question. But it was, again, it's a good exchange because even though it's a cold outreach, I get to be on a podcast talking about something great content for me that I can reuse. and they get another guest on their podcast. So things like that where

you know, numbers game because some people will say no and maybe they're just busy or they don't want to, you know, there's always good reasons. So it's good to ask more people and see what happens. yeah.

Pippa Goulden (13:06)
Yeah, all those tools, I'll pop those in the show notes as well for anyone

that wants that doesn't hasn't heard of them like me. And I think there's a couple of things that I always talk to people about is using your network. So looking at who you know, and I've had a few people push back on me on this and they say, well, they would ask me if they wanted me to do this or that.

It doesn't work like that does it? You've got to put those big girl pants on, you've got to reach out to people and ask and think as well, like don't just say can we do something together, it's what would actually work for you in your business, what would work for them in their business, think strategically about it but actually ask the questions because it doesn't work if you just sit there waiting for it to happen to you does it?

Lucy Woolfenden (13:48)
No, and also I think that bit about going to somebody with an idea as well, don't ask them to do the work. I think you get the best response if you say, you like to be on my podcast to talk about this at this time in a couple of weeks? And somebody is much more likely to say yes, because it's less work for them to think about it and go away. So definitely working like that is so helpful. And yeah, it takes confidence, doesn't it? But they haven't asked.

me so they obviously don't want me. It's literally that part, like people are just busy, everybody's got a hundred things they're juggling so you've got to ask and be okay if somebody says no.

Pippa Goulden (14:24)
Yeah, because the no is never about you anyway, it's about what else they've got going on. So actually, it doesn't matter. It's not a reflection of you if you get a no. And we all get nos. It literally just means you stop thinking about it and move on to the next thing. So actually getting a no allows you to move on. I think the other thing that I've learned really early on in my business is that no one cares about your business as much as you do. And that is so freeing because it means that you can go out and do all of these things. No one's giving you that time of thought, the thinking.

that you think that they are kind of putting into your business.

Lucy Woolfenden (14:57)
Yeah, do. One thing that I've started this year is to set myself goals of outreach. So that saying things like, okay, right. I'm going to ask three people a week if I can be on their podcast or be in their newsletter, I'm going to do this and giving myself goals. So it's like that sort of self accountability of have you actually done it? Because I'm the first person to put that down to my bottom of my list. And it's so important.

Pippa Goulden (15:20)
Yeah, and actually knowing and

I do that I set quarterly targets and I know for me it's the speaking stuff that really kind of shifts the dial for the business. so therefore my key PR strategy is about getting speaking opportunities or podcast interviews or guest workshops. And they and they come from me building that network, reaching out for collaborations and that kind of thing. So, I think you've done a similar thing in that building the business from the ground up really has come through these

partnerships, collaborations, tapping into your network, all of that stuff and it's so powerful isn't it for your business.

Lucy Woolfenden (15:56)
so easy. And then just reusing a lot of that content. So we do things like we'll take the video that we've recorded, we'll take the transcript, turn that into a blog and then social posts. And then I've been playing with things like Opus clips that just do clips of the videos so that you're not even having to think about it. They'll just choose the first 10. You know, all they say time saver things. Cause when you're doing your own content as well as running your own business, you just don't have half a day to think about that.

perfect pass, it's just about starting to get it out and then perfecting it as you go.

Pippa Goulden (16:28)
Yeah,

yeah and I think there's something in that as well I often talk to people about using their content as a PR tool so whether it's your social media or your blogs or your podcast often it's people just putting out

their own stuff that they want to put out. But actually if you think strategically about who you could bring into your own world to be on your podcast or to help you with content that you can then cross pollinate to each other's audiences, it actually helps you to do some of those jobs that often are, on the to-do list and need to get done anyway.

Lucy Woolfenden (17:02)
Yeah, my gosh, I think it's such a, we talk about repurposing a lot of that content a lot and it's so important, isn't it? Because again, that's a trusted point that if somebody's coming to your website and they haven't seen you before, but they can see that you've spoken all over so many different channels, that gives them immediate trust that you must be that expert that you're saying you are.

Pippa Goulden (17:22)
Yeah, absolutely.

And often we were talking about this in one of the courses that I do get known. It's often not about whether they've read you in the magazine. know, often, that does work for you in terms of PR and people finding you. But even just knowing that you've been in that magazine has an amazing place for the trust in the building and positioning you as an expert and a go to and the endorsement So it's not actually them reading you, it's seeing that you've been in it.

Lucy Woolfenden (17:47)
Yeah, 100%. You're seeing that much more on people's LinkedIn banners and all their content. think it's such an important part.

Pippa Goulden (17:56)
So how do you make sure you're on the same page as a collaborator? Like how do you make sure that you're going into something and you're both wanting to get the same thing out of it? Or what would be your tips around that?

Lucy Woolfenden (18:10)
Yeah, so I think first of all, it's really thinking about aligning with values I think the easiest thing to do is just to reach out to a couple of people that you respect that are similar industry and say, how do you see this? What do you think we'd align? do you respect them and do you think they've got a good brand? Because it is that.

referred trust that comes off the back of it because somebody will know you and your channel and then if you bring somebody else on that referred trust gets directed to you so if they don't have trust in you that also works in the opposite way so I think it is definitely starting that way. you can always also just have a quick look at

who's following them and the type of audience they have. You know, it's quite easy to do, check that they are relevant. And then just connect and have a conversation. you could start with, we've got a shared audience and I'd love to chat about partnership opportunities. Here's my calendar. Let's have a quick coffee next week and see what we can do. And again, like Ozzie said, I'd be really confident about, this is what I'm really good at and I can come on and do this with you.

and start talking about that. And then as a geek, I do have a really geeky scoring system that's around like, what goals are you setting? And do they meet those goals? Will it help build your reputation? Is it easy to complete? Like there are some things that are just such hard work, is it worth putting six months of

effort in to get it, know, effort versus reward, links to potential network and then relevancy of your band. So yeah.

Pippa Goulden (19:43)
I love the fact you have a

scorecard Lucy, I wouldn't expect anything less, I'm very impressed. I'm just like, let's just do some partnerships and see if they work. That's the difference, that's why Lucy has a very data driven business and I'm like, let's do some PR. I love it.

Lucy Woolfenden (19:48)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (19:59)
And do you have any examples of partnerships that you've loved, either worked on yourself or you've seen out there that you think are really great examples of people doing it well?

Lucy Woolfenden (20:08)
Yeah, so actually I was reading Matt Lerner's newsletter this morning and he talked about one in the really early days of PayPal. They needed some really good content and leads quickly, so he went to an author of someone that had just written a book that was relevant to the small businesses that using it and asked if he could put in two free chapters onto their website and it drove 100,000 heaps of PayPal but also

it got loads of interest for the author, so the author, and apparently it's still on PayPal's website 20 years later. But it's just, I realise that's a huge brand, but it's somebody just seeing something that's relevant, reaching out, taking an opportunity, and there being mutually beneficial points for both brands, and it's a really nice example. I really love, and I'm sure you'll have done this lots with the PR is joint research.

So for our clients, they love stuff like how did X go from zero to hero? So I did one with Curve recently, which is Owen Grimberg, on how Figma sold the audience from Sketch, which again is very techy and sass, but if that's your audience, that worked well. Ones that people really love are like benchmarks. Like how do I know if I'm doing well? What is, what does it look like? And if you can share, do a quick piece of joint research on benchmarks, that really works.

So I think they're lovely. At Yolk, which is a money app and it was back in 2018, we did lots of partnerships with other fintechs at similar stage, they're really early stage businesses at that point. And we'd always start off with shared content. So even if it was just as simple as us doing a blog on the top five places to check your pension for pension B or something. And then we do joint.

PR and webinars and events. And then if that worked well, we'd then do a product integration. But we take those sort of really simple steps before we actually get anything sort of solid and really time convincing. then, so at Skype, it was all about converting the millions of people that occasionally phone their granny abroad to getting them using it. So we did lots of

partnerships from film to TV and politics and superheroes. yeah, lots of so many different ways of getting started, but I do think simple, quick, simple, see if it works, build,

Pippa Goulden (22:46)
Is there something as well in thinking at it from the other end and thinking about the audiences and making sure that it makes sense to the audience? Because there's probably quite a lot of examples. I mean, there's some examples like...

know, Greggs and Primark, where you go, what have they done? But actually it's genius. But there must be some examples where the audience are like, I don't get this. And then it's a it's a total waste of time, isn't it? So yeah, is there something about actually thinking about that end user or audience?

Lucy Woolfenden (23:16)
Yeah, think starting with always asking people who you'd like to see the partnership with the way you think it would be relevant, who they love, brands they love, and asking it doesn't need to be a difficult question either. It could just be like a quick question at the end of your newsletter. reply with your top five favorite brands or top five people you've been following this week. So starting that way and then checking and seeing when you first do that really simple piece.

Asking people what they thought of it, You could do it as a quick survey, but also just starting really simply, can just outreach, like just message them, DM them and ask them what they thought. And starting with that and then seeing some of the engagement numbers off the back of it and seeing, are you getting quality leads? So I did a couple of times where I do, I was carting around my webinars and events everywhere and a couple of times I get.

tons of leads but they'd all be poor quality leads so they were never going to convert to clients but it would mean that I'd spend a couple of weeks on the phone talking to people and never getting anything from it so it's also just that which was brilliant, had a great time, lovely to work with, tons of people interested but actually it just cost me about a a week or two's worth of time

Pippa Goulden (24:31)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there is a little bit of you've got to throw some mud at the wall and see what sticks, don't you? And try things. But then you've equally got to have as much confidence in yourself to say, actually, this specific route isn't working for me, or I need to tweak it slightly because the audience is. And also, as your business grows and evolves, you'll be doing really different things now to when you first started the Scale Up Collective, because your audience has kind of evolved with you. And so what maybe worked for you right at the beginning isn't necessarily

Lucy Woolfenden (24:53)
Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (25:00)
what's going to work for you now and it is about keeping checking back in on the strategy and making sure that you are doing things that are aligned with who you are and your business objectives now as they change.

Lucy Woolfenden (25:12)
Yeah, think that's it. It's so true. And it is about just I do think it is about just trying things and seeing if it works or not, because you won't always be able to test and know if it's going to happen. And especially if it doesn't take up that much time, like the worst it is, is a good bit of content where you can take a couple of clips out of it and know the thing to post when you're supposed to be posting every day on

Pippa Goulden (25:35)
Yay! And actually

I did a podcast interview with Pip from Marlow Wine who are a consumer brand of people who looking, obviously Lucy's talked about some tech examples but they're brilliant at collaborations. mean they obviously they do have wine which helps but they're really good at aligning with the right brands from a positioning perspective and from a partnership perspective so that's a really useful episode.

to listen to as well if you are a consumer brand wanting to work out which partnerships to go after because they work for all sorts of business whether you're b2b b2c service product you know there are all sorts of different routes and ways that you can do it and I was having an interesting chat with a client yesterday actually who was looking at whether she should white label as in do

Lucy Woolfenden (26:14)
So the topic is...

participate.

Pippa Goulden (26:21)
product creations for other

brands where she doesn't get the recognition or is the right route for them to do stuff as a brand and that's quite an interesting one isn't it?

Lucy Woolfenden (26:30)
Yeah, oh gosh, Because it's good from a revenue point of view, but it's not going to help you get the next client if you're not allowed to say it. So it's yeah, it's always that sort of decision of weighing up or could we do say 30 % white label and then 70 %? The way people talk about it with us with them called fame or fortune is like

Pippa Goulden (26:46)
Yeah.

Lucy Woolfenden (26:55)
is that client going to give you fame or fortune? And they're both good and both really important for a business. But you can go for somewhere, you're not going to get paid very well, but it'd be really great as a case study and you'll get in front of lots of people and then others that will be really, you know, put money in the bank, which let's be honest, we all need that.

Pippa Goulden (27:14)
Yeah, exactly and there's absolutely

nothing wrong with that and if that is the motivation for a partnership then absolutely go for it. I think again it's going back to your business objectives isn't it and looking at what where you are at that stage of your business and what you do need to prioritize in terms of getting known for what you do or the funds coming in and sometimes they can work together but other times you know you need to prioritize one over the other.

Lucy Woolfenden (27:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it is all about how much time you have in the day, isn't it, of what you can be doing and what is achievable. I do think if you can start to get like, you're doing brilliant job, like I think this podcast is a brilliant way of getting it and you've got this, you you create your process of how you do it, which saves you time as you go, don't you? And I think so thinking about things like repeatable things also just really helps you not having to start from scratch every time.

Pippa Goulden (28:09)
Yeah, absolutely. So my webinar that I do, I can tweak it depending on the audience, but it's kind of the same thing for different communities. And that's kind of worked for me for the last four years. I've changed things and I've added new ones to it, but I have a core webinar that I deliver. So it took me time at the beginning to develop it, but actually now I can kind of do it almost with my eyes closed. yeah, finding things within your business that actually aren't going to...

take a lot of time and mean that you have to start from the beginning every time is a it's a good little hack.

Lucy Woolfenden (28:43)
Yeah, definitely. And I do the same and it's brilliant because otherwise you're rethinking. But also it's the same thing. Generally what people need to know are the same couple of points and making those actually also quite specific. I found where I went in and tried to talk to people about how to start a whole marketing strategy from scratch, which is a bit too much information. People would sort of leave a bit dazed and not really sure. But if you can get...

to be talking about one thing specific, like how to hire your first marketer or how to do, you know, talk to people, listen. You know, that's the sort of way that you can get people and make it really actionable. And that's how you get them talking about it again, because they'll start using it and they'll remember it.

Pippa Goulden (29:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, that's how you've been known as Lucy, who talks about dancing on other people's dance floors. You are living proof of how that's worked. But it is like somebody put a post on LinkedIn the other day about it, didn't they? And, you know, it's you talking about it. And I think sometimes we get scared of repetition and like sounding like we're repeating ourselves when actually the only person who hears you repeating it all the time is you. And actually what it is really good for is consolidating that knowledge and showing that you know what you're talking about and, you know.

people aren't hearing you say it every time so...

Lucy Woolfenden (29:57)
I think there's a stat that I always remember. It's something like about 5 % of your audience will see each post. So that means you you need to keep repeating it because they're just not seeing it or they'll forget because we all do as we scroll. But I think the really good content creators especially is about repetition and is about thinking about the one thing that they're going to be known for. Cause that also helps with wide of mouth and recommendations because they can say, oh,

Pippa Goulden (30:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lucy Woolfenden (30:23)
So and so is really good at this. This is what she's really good at talking about. Talk to her about this. that, yeah. So definitely keeping it simple.

Pippa Goulden (30:28)
Yeah.

Keeping it simple, that's what we're all about. Lucy, thank you so much, this has been so insightful and hopefully it's inspired businesses out there to really think about.

how they can use strategic partnerships and collaborations, how they can dance on other people's dance floors. Because I think actually, especially what I've seen in the small business community, and I know you feel this as well, is that we are really good at lifting each other up and giving each other that platform to cross-pollinate and to talk to each other's audiences because it benefits us all. So yeah, I'd really encourage people to have a think about how they can do it.

See you soon!

Pippa Goulden (31:09)
I hope you found that conversation with Lucy inspiring and it has given you some motivation to get dancing on other people's dance floors. You can find Lucy on LinkedIn, Lucy Wolfenden or at the scaleupcollective.com and she really is worth following and I always use her as an example of someone who's done a brilliant job in building their profile, getting known for what they do. She has got such an amazing reputation within

the tech startup marketing space. So go and give her a follow and see how she does it. And if you have been inspired to do some collaborations for your business to get going with your PR, then you can find me, I'm Pippa Goulden on LinkedIn or Pippa the PR set on Instagram. And you can find me at theprset.com where you can find out more about my DIY PR membership.

my one-to-one work and my client work as well. And don't forget the code POD50 will get you 50 % off your first month in my DIY PR membership. We've got so much going on in there at the moment. I am so excited. So yeah, give me a follow, let me know how you get on, let me know whose dance floors you are going to start dancing on and I will see you again very soon for another episode of PR Made Simple.