Please note this transcript is generated by AI so apologies for any mistakes!

Pippa Goulden (00:45)
Pip Dawes is the co-founder of Marlo Wine, a business she started with her husband in 2019, offering a curated selection of fine wines, perfect for any occasion and delivered directly to your door. They quickly disrupted the market with the innovative brand and personalized service to create an accessible, cool, non-stuffy approach to wine. Together, Pip and Dawesie have built a brilliant business and their PR speaks for itself.

being featured in lots of amazing publications, in GIF guides, profile interviews, events, and collaborating with some very cool brands. They were also one of my very first DIY PR members four years ago. So we've been on this ride together since the beginning. So let's find out more about how they've done it. Welcome Pip to PR Made Simple.

Pip Dawes (01:29)
Well thanks, thanks for having me.

Pippa Goulden (01:31)
Let's get straight into it. Can you us more about Marlo? I've explained a bit more about the business, but I think I'd love to know what inspired you to launch the business. You've got such a kind of strong, cool brand. How did it all evolve? Where did it come from?

Pip Dawes (01:48)
Well, I think it came from the fact that we were aware that there were lots of new wine drinkers. So not the traditional drinkers that would have bought cases of six. There were suddenly loads of new young wine drinkers who wanted to drink fine wine, but didn't necessarily want to sort of buy huge bulk of that. They wanted to try and drink lots of wines. And actually there weren't that many places on the market where you could go and

and do that without feeling A, put off by a stuffy wine shop or B, online. So actually we just thought, well, let's create something where people have access to lots of really great, interesting, fine wines and they can buy it by the bottle and get it delivered next working day. So I think it kind of came from that. And then also we saw that there was an opportunity to create a site that enabled people to gift online. And originally we thought we were very much a gifting site.

But I think now we realize we're much more of a fine wine drinking site and the gifting is a plus. So it sort of started that way. And we, to be honest, we didn't really know it was an experiment. We were like, let's pop it on a Shopify site and see how it goes. And we'd quietly built a little brand that we'd been playing with and then put it online. And it kind of went crazy, but that was also down to the fact that we had COVID as well.

I think lots of people got into lots of things during Covid and that was perhaps a happy coincidence for us,

Pippa Goulden (03:21)
I think what's interesting about your backgrounds is that obviously Dorsey's got the fine wine background and you don't so I think you bring a really like new interesting approach to it that maybe people kind of within the wine industry didn't necessarily have. Do think that's fair?

Pip Dawes (03:37)
Yeah, massively so. mean, I still struggle because I feel quite overwhelmed and it's ridiculous because the whole reason we set Marlow up was to try and remove all of that kind of terrifying wide language and terminology. And I'm still frightened to put myself out there. Even though I've now worked in wine for years, I'm still frightened to pronounce something incorrectly or to

give the wrong information and I don't know where that comes from it's that sort of headmasterly you're saying it wrong you clearly don't know what you're talking about whereas actually I do I just don't need to say it that way to to be aficionado of that subject so I don't know it's I think it's trying to look at it from my angle because ultimately a lot of women are buying wine and actually they don't want that stuffy persona

behind the shop that they're buying their wine from. They just want to go and have a lovely shopping experience. So it's really nice that in a way I don't get too involved in the terminology and I don't get too involved in that detail and I can see it from that angle,

Pippa Goulden (04:40)
Absolutely, and I think that comes through with the brand and the partnerships that you do and everything. It's really distinctive in a very traditional industry. So you've done a brilliant job there. When it comes to your PR, what's your approach from the PR over the last four years?

Pip Dawes (04:59)
So we were very social media heavy in the beginning because of COVID. So we were restricted to literally being on Instagram, Facebook, all of those usual places. And also I had done a diploma in digital marketing with the Digital Mums, which was brilliant. And I did that because this is what we planned to do, was to set up this site.

that was good in that I was armed with those skills to be able to carry it forward whilst we couldn't do anything else. So we couldn't do any sort of in-person tastings. So initially, our PR started by just doing all of the social media stuff. And, you know, we were so lucky because lots of people re-tweeted us or, you reposted. And that was brilliant. That really helps us to gain momentum. And then I think that we had

built our model on trying to scale it via social media. And so we always thought we were going to go in that direction. But actually, I think we get a lot more from doing the 360 kind of PR. originally, we thought we were going to be totally digital. And then now more and more, we're much more about everything that we can do. So when we talk about our PR and how we structure it.

We're sort of just always looking at opportunities. Every month we're looking at collaborations. Every month we're looking at press opportunities. Every month we're looking at is there an influencer? And yeah, we're looking at all of those avenues as opposed to just one specific one, which is what we originally thought we would do.

Pippa Goulden (06:44)
And I think that's...

indicative of lot of businesses that did start around the pandemic, obviously there are a lot, know, a lot of us just relied and we could rely really on social media then. And like you say, there weren't many other options, especially from an in-person perspective, but now, the world has changed and the businesses that are evolving and doing things differently and not just relying on those same methods are the ones that I see doing really well because they're trying different things. there's definitely an

appetite for in-person events and I think you do those brand collaborations really well where you can actually get in front of your customer and you can talk to them and they can see the brand and they can see who you're aligned with. Can you tell us a bit about the collaborations that you do because you've just done some really really fab ones haven't you? Obviously it's the run up to Christmas now so of lovely events happening.

Pip Dawes (07:34)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they take a while. They don't just sort of happen. I mean, sometimes they do, but sometimes they take six to 12 months in the making because you've got to hit upon a point at which you can both work together. A lot of the bigger brands are working 12 months ahead, as you know, as you tell us all to do, but, you know, we're not that organized. But we start normally by finding a brand that we really love.

we feel, probably how it shares a similar demographic. Often it's a brand that we massively aspire to. And typically what we do is to reach out via email or via an Instagram message and say, we love what you're doing. We might be customers and is there anything we can do together? And you tend to get a feeling as to whether you can do a competition with them.

or whether you can do just, you know, feature them on your blog. And that's quite nice because that's really flattering for them. And actually that costs them nothing. It's just more whether they've got the time to be able to do it. But yeah, I mean, this month we've done the Beaufort and Blake collaboration, which was amazing where we ran a giveaway and then we also gave wine for their store launch, which was brilliant. They've launched a new shop on

the ones with High Street. And so we went, took our cards, gave out some wine. And that's just great. That's great because you're talking to people, people who buy nice clothes and also probably buy nice wine. It's nice for us to be associated with them as well. And likewise, you know, we did one with Wise last week and that was brilliant again. And, you know, you get to meet people who don't know about you and you can tell them about yourself.

And I think what's really important is that their strong brand then authenticates your brand because you gain a lot of identity from associating with them. I mean, it's quite hard to get bigger brands to work with smaller brands, but the more you do it, the more they're inclined to do it. Does that make sense?

Pippa Goulden (09:52)
Absolutely and I think it's about starting the ball rolling isn't it? It's like trying things, maybe smaller things and building up to it. It's not like you've just come in and clipped your fingers and started working with Wwise from Day Dot. You know things that you've done that have led you to that point and it's about I think being strategic. You know I love a plan you know thinking strategically about who you do want to be working with and the direction that your brand's going in and you've done that really well by aligning.

you know the right brands who have that kind of like you say the demographic. What about press coverage because you've had some amazing press coverage I mean hot off the press you were featured in was it the Times magazine gift guide yesterday? Brilliant! Saturday!

Pip Dawes (10:33)
Hmm. It was actually on Saturday. Yeah, and we missed it. Hilarious. It was my friend that messaged and said, you do know when you're in the Times magazine. I was like, there we are. And I did know that we were hopefully going to be in it because we'd sent images and stuff like that. And you as you know, you will send a lot of samples and you will send a lot of images and there will be promises but you mostly have to believe it's not going to happen. And it's a happy surprise when it does. But

You know, we've massively followed what you've told us to do, you know, by having really nice product images of which I desperately need to get some more. But having a good product image that you can whip over, you know, having a nice bit of blurb that's ready to go means that you can react really quickly. the Times journalist contacted me and I believe it was off the back of another product placement that we'd had.

And she said, I'm featuring you hopefully in the Times Magazine, can you send me this? And so we did. And then we sort of said, can we send you one? Would you like to try one? She said, that would be lovely, thank you. So that sort of sweetens the deal. But it doesn't mean to say that she would have done it. She might not have and that would have been fine, but it's just about being seen, isn't it?

Pippa Goulden (11:55)
Yeah, and it's about doing the work.

to get in front of the right people rather than just sitting waiting for it to happen to you and I think something that you're really good at doing is kind of getting that right mix between the product and the brand. So you do profile interviews, you talk about kind of the brand story so rather than it just being about a bottle of wine you're talking about the whole business and bringing people into your world. How do you kind of do that mix for things? I I'd love you to say I do it really strategically.

and I think like this but I think some of it is just you the right opportunities and also something I've noticed is that there's a few journalists I know who come back to you over and over again because they know that you're a reliable source now for content and for providing them with stuff.

Pip Dawes (12:37)
Yeah.

Well, totally. I reality is I worked on a magazine, I mean, granted a local one, but I put their features together and I remember happily going to somebody who I knew would give me something. And so you know exactly how that feels. If something's ready to go and they're on a deadline, they're doing a million other things, you sort of just want to make it easy for them. there is strategy to it, definitely. But again,

probably like lots of your PR subscribers, we're a small team. So as much as I want to make it really strategic, there's also a lot of like, I've got to do this and I've got to the kids at school and I've to do this and I'm just going to somehow get it done. But my diary is definitely like, I am making notes on every day with a view to how the next month's going to roll.

with key things, I'm not going to go past a week without having tried to get a collaboration on the go and, talk to an influencer and, you know, not a week passes without something like that.

Pippa Goulden (13:42)
I think that it's making sure that it's consistent and consistent doesn't have to mean you're doing it every day But it it does mean that you're thinking ahead to what you've got coming up and this is something that I do a lot with my one-to-one Clients will kind of look at say a quarter and it's like okay. Well, I want to be doing one podcast two collaborations, whatever it works out as and actually making sure that you are ticking those off your

Pip Dawes (13:52)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (14:07)
to-do list rather than just going god I should do a bit of PR and then forgetting about it for a few months and then you've realized there's a bit of a lag.

Pip Dawes (14:16)
Well, massively, and also you will know this, once you start getting the momentum of a good run of PR, it snowballs because actually you then, like we said, we were seen somewhere by another journalist and hopefully it will go on to the next thing. But when you stop, when it dries up, that's because you haven't put yourself out there. So nobody's seen you and it's much easier for them to spot you.

it is a snowball effect. have to continually put yourself out there and you lose momentum if you don't, basically.

Pippa Goulden (14:49)
And do you have a favourite bit of press coverage that you've generated? Is there anything in particular that you were like, yeah look at this?

Pip Dawes (14:56)
Well, mean, that sheer lux one. I love that because...

Pippa Goulden (15:02)
That was a profile interview with you, wasn't it? Where it was about a Meet the Founder kind of piece.

Pip Dawes (15:08)
Yeah, and it felt ridiculous because I would still say I feel completely fortunate about being here. I mean, the whole thing feels totally ridiculous. But I did love that because I was like, that's our market. That's where I want to be. That was when we set it up. That was the dream, you know. And so I felt really like loving of that piece of, you know, that bit. then also, yeah.

Pippa Goulden (15:30)
It was a great one. It was a great one. But also, I think what you've just said there is really important for everyone because we all get that imposter syndrome. We all say, you know, see you in sheer luck, think, God, I could never put myself forward for that kind of thing. And actually, everyone's feeling the same. So you've just got to go for these opportunities, haven't you?

Pip Dawes (15:50)
It's massively cringe, then again, it's that sense of like, well that then authenticates your brand. And weirdly after that interview, we had a conversation with a venture capitalist. So, you you just don't know who reads what and you can't, I think we get way less sales than you would expect from that sort of thing and way more introductions to other opportunities.

And that's what it's all about. Ultimately, when you're building a business, sort of want to see what its future beholds. And, you know, that's where it opens the opportunities is people sort of seeing you as a genuine business and one that's sort of doing okay, because it's being featured here. But you know, a lot of it is spoken mirrors, you all know this. And then we also had another amazing article, probably

Pippa Goulden (16:28)
Yeah.

Pip Dawes (16:43)
Two years ago, which Victoria Moore of The Telegraph, she wrote about us and she described us as the flower box of the wine world. We were just, you know, it was quite a substantial piece. It was the papers, it just felt mega. And it was really like, wow, look, we're doing something really good. What we do is cool and people like it. That's really nice. all of it is great.

Pippa Goulden (17:07)
Any of it take it all and I think what you said what you said there is really interesting as well about the sales because that that is one of the things I think that that people kind of are reluctant to do PR because it's really hard to Track your ROI. Isn't it? You know, if you're focused on monthly sales then

Pip Dawes (17:09)
Any of it.

Pippa Goulden (17:27)
PR isn't necessarily going to help you to do that all the time. mean, having said that, we've had members on this morning and their sales have gone through the roof. it can impact your sales. But I think what I love about PR is it's that magic, it's that sprinkling of stuff that you just can't predict what's going to happen with it. And it can open doors. And from an investment perspective, it can really help you with that third party endorsement. So yeah, I think it's really important that people go into doing their own PR.

Pip Dawes (17:34)
Yeah. Yeah. No, totally.

Pippa Goulden (17:57)
Realizing that it's not just about selling it's about building a brand it's about getting known for what you do and that allows you to be here for The long term rather than just focusing month to month

Pip Dawes (18:09)
Well, it's interesting because on Shopify, we can track where our sales come from, providing, you know, the sale comes from an online source. So, okay, this latest piece of product placement is in a physical paper. So we can't track that. But let's say we've written a blog, we can track whether it's coming via that. And actually, that is really interesting. You know, we get really good traction on content that we create, that we put out.

So we do like a BYO blog about the best restaurants in London to take your own wine to. We've had massive traction via that. And that is not pushing a sale. That's totally separate, but it's added value. It's something that's bringing people via Google to our website and then they're buying something. So.

Pippa Goulden (19:04)
Yeah, and actually all of that all of those things all of those marketing channels you can be using them as PR tools as well Can't you because if you interview the right person on your blog they share it on their social media and they share it with their email list using your socials as a PR tool you're obviously using your Your content as a PR tool talking about the right restaurants and that kind of thing, you know That's really clever because like you say you're owning that content. You're much more in control of it, but you're able to kind of be

slightly strategic with the kind of things that you're putting out into the world that can then be shared and create shareability around them.

So you and Doze are both really good at founder activities so like kind of getting known as the founders of Marlo. How important have you found that you know rather than just relying on the product putting yourselves out there has that been something that you've done deliberately or have you grown into it?

Pip Dawes (19:58)
I would say 100 % Dawsey is not comfortable with that. He hates it. And actually, as you know, I feel like a fraud and feel scared to talk about why. So it has been quite hard because actually it's not natural to either of us. But I think it's really important because if you don't show yourself as the person behind the brand, you are just another brand.

And I think more and more, I mean, I look at WISE as an example, the clothing shop that we've just done our tasting with. They are such big faces of their brand. People were there at their tasting, not necessarily because they love the clothes, they do love the clothes, but more that the founder of that company is sort of her own mini celebrity, a like Bricks and Stitches. They become these sort of characters of their brand.

And we're definitely not that, but what we hope is that people build enough familiarity that they want to remain loyal to us as opposed to going elsewhere, I just think it's really good for us to be known so that people feel they're part of our community and that we're normal and that we're not a big...

investment fund that we're actually just normal people running a company.

Pippa Goulden (21:22)
Absolutely, and I think community actually is something that we're going to see being more and more important for businesses as we go into next year. It's something that think the brands that are...

nurturing community and creating and by community I'm not just talking about the number of followers you've got I'm talking about creating events where your brand oilist can come to can meet you can help you with ideas for growing the business all of that stuff I think we're going to see that being really important in 2025 and you've been doing that for a really long time haven't you?

Pip Dawes (21:55)
Yeah, I mean, I would love to do way more of it, but we're just really restricted at the moment. For example, we have this amazing party.

It was just mega because we got to meet all of our customers and they came. I can't believe it. It was actually really sadly when the queen died and I couldn't believe that they would still come and they did. And it was just incredible that having never met these people, they all came.

Pippa Goulden (22:14)
yeah.

Pip Dawes (22:27)
And that sense of community is huge. And with community builds, as we said, loyalty because they're going to choose you over the other wine shop, I hope. Because ultimately we don't make anything. We're just a shop. We're no different to Sainsbury's or Majestic apart from that we curate our list. And okay, it is slightly higher end.

Pippa Goulden (22:38)
Absolutely.

Pip Dawes (22:53)
But we're just a shop. So how do we then make people keep coming back to our shop?

Pippa Goulden (23:00)
Yeah, you are also very good, I should say, for last minute presents Scented nice bottle of wine from Mano. Yeah, it's good.

Pip Dawes (23:04)
No, it is good.

Pippa Goulden (23:07)
So I think the other thing that collaborations and that kind of side of the PR that you do are good for building your network as well, aren't they? Because I imagine it has that trickle effect on bringing more people into your world, finding more opportunities and stuff. How have you felt that grow as you've built the business?

Pip Dawes (23:20)
Yeah.

Well, from customer perspective, doing the tastings last week, they are a masterclass in that because they hosted an event where they filmed it live to all of their followers and had people in their space whilst collaborating with two people.

So that was very clever. So yes, it grows our customer base. We had orders and we had growth in terms of that. It also grows our network of collaborators. that worked well for them or probably collaborate again with them. And funnily enough, I'd met one of the ladies before on a previous collaboration with someone else. So again, it's just connecting all of those dots. And in doing that, again, it's a sense of

They trust you, they're happy to work with you again. You all sort of, you know, give each other a lift,

which I think is...

Pippa Goulden (24:15)
I imagine you're also starting to see people recommending you when they haven't even worked with you or you know like you must I must introduce you to this brand because you would be great together and and that's when you can feel that groundswell as well can't

Pip Dawes (24:28)
Yeah, totally. There is that as well. And also it helps that we do wine. mean, you know, people are often having a something or other that needs a bit of wine. And then, you know, sadly we have to say to some people, no, because also it costs us money. So you have to be quite careful, but on the whole, you know, we'll do anything.

Pippa Goulden (24:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

obviously you've got this brand that is really identifiable, it's a really strong brand, I guess you want to align yourself with the right brands that have the right audience, so do you find yourself more and more having to say that's not the right direction for us, or do you just throw mud at the wall and see what sticks?

Pip Dawes (25:14)
Not really. I think we reach out far more than people reach out to us. So in that respect, we don't have that problem because we're reaching out to people that we want to.

I mean you have to really be careful with your budget you can't just

can't do everything. But We're more approaching those that we want to work with because we're still a small brand. you know, trying to get better at that.

Pippa Goulden (25:40)
And so what's your advice for somebody who's thinking, I couldn't approach these people, it's too cringe, it's so embarrassing, I can't put myself out there? What would you say to people from that perspective?

Pip Dawes (25:51)
I don't think you can believe that these days because either they've got a PR team working for them and they couldn't care less about if you approach them. mean it's helping them. So they're always looking for collaborations and all they've got to say is no and that's fine and you sort of flat list them.

or they're a brand and they're doing it all themselves and they're thrilled. I just think if they're not interested then fine, but they're not for you. That's just the way it is, it's not gonna work. If they're not interested then it's not for you. But I think generally on the whole if you're aligned, what haven't you got to benefit from it?

Pippa Goulden (26:27)
Like if it's a no, at least you know it's a no and then you just move on.

Pip Dawes (26:31)
Totally. think the best way is to flatter them by wanting to invite them onto your blog or wanting to ask questions, because that's ultimately what people want is to sort of talk about their brand. So I just think, you know, it's, it's, you can't lose anything by trying. I think.

Pippa Goulden (26:53)
I agree, You've grown the business massively in a relatively short amount of time. How has that ride been? what have you learnt from it? we could probably do a separate podcast on this,

Pip Dawes (27:03)
Yeah, well I think I touched on it earlier that we had originally thought we were scaling via social media campaigns. We spent a fortune on digital advertising with a big company that scaled a well-known brand very quickly and it boomed and that's what we thought we were going to do.

And just for whatever reason, it did not work. And it was a costly lesson. There were lots of reasons. The change in iOS in the security and the privacy and people switched off. So we were not targeting our adverts at the right people. There were lots and lots of reasons. Maybe we didn't get our imagery right, but it's such an unknown entity that you feel completely out of control with that. We just stopped. And then we...

happily still were growing due to a loyalty in our brand and due to the fact that there wasn't really anything else like us. So when we started, it grew enormously because of COVID, like out of control. We were in a tiny little office. We had everything everywhere. It was absolutely traumatic. were like,

we filling DP, D-vans and it was nuts. It was lovely and awful, but for two it was alright. But basically we moved into a massive warehouse, huge, which was scary, really scary.

and in Wandsworth town and it cost a lot of money and we had to stick on a warehouse manager and it was a lot. I mean it was amazing and incredible to have all the wines there. It was just a really special time. I have such lovely memories of the children having broken up from school and being on their knees helping me fill the hampers and you know it's cool it's like look kids this is what we're all doing and

I loved that, it felt amazing and you go into Christmas feeling like you've really earned a break. And then we could not physically hold the volume of wines in the warehouse. You can't scale unless you can scale your buildings along with it. So we then decided to move everything to fulfillment. And that was a really weird feeling because you lose total control over how everything

goes out and to this day I feel completely overwhelmed by it because what we did was to write handwritten cards and wrap the bottles and you could see everything that went out whereas with fulfillment they charge you to wrap the bottles, they charge you to print the notes but even then I sometimes you know, you know, we'll do a mystery shop and see that they're not printing on our cards

that loss of control is really horrible. You feel completely gutted that you've spent so long building this brand to think that actually they don't care about it like you do and you're paying for it, but you're not paying as much and it's the only way to scale. So what you have to make sure of then is that your customer service is every bit as good as that. And look, everything still goes out okay. It's just that some things might just not go out exactly

as you want them,

Pippa Goulden (30:35)
but you're still, what I think you've done brilliantly and it's a really great lesson for people who are scaling is you've kept that brand so true to who you are. Okay, fine, you might have, not a handwritten note anymore, but I think the feeling of the brand, you know...

I've had deliveries for the whole of the four years. It's never felt like it's changed from that perspective, but just the way that you align the brand and the people you work with and the way you present the brand through all of your socials and the blog and the website and stuff that that's felt really consistent all the way through. So, you know, whilst you're you're in it, on the day to day, probably not seeing that that's happening from an outside perspective. So I think you should definitely, be congratulated on that.

Pip Dawes (31:18)
well, that's pretty kind. But hilariously, I look back at loads that we did, I was like, what is this? Delete, delete, delete, delete. It's a bit like when you see that meme and people are like, I'm not the same person I was seven years ago when I posted this. It's exactly the same. Who was that? Who did that? But we now are in a sort of medium sized office.

We've still got our photography studio. We've still got, a great, lovely office, but we don't have any wines here, which is quite weird as well. So I can't just go and help myself to anything. Where's the wine? Probably, yeah, livid.

Pippa Goulden (31:51)
when you like popping out on a Friday evening to someone's house you have to go and buy it or be or be prepared and advice do you have for anyone who's listening to this they're wanting to start thinking about PR for their business what your top tips

Pip Dawes (32:07)
sign up to Pippa's PR set. No, it's true. Honestly, I don't know what I'd do without you. Even though I'm a bit of a ghost, I sort of watching from afar, I don't get the opportunity to log on to as much as I'd like to. I'll always look at the journal requests. I'll always look at what you're talking about. And it always triggers me to action what I need to do.

Pippa Goulden (32:10)
Thanks. I'll pay you later.

Pip Dawes (32:35)
So definitely do that. But also don't be afraid of everything. I I spent an awful lot of time looking at what everybody else is doing, I think, and working out what I like about that and what I don't like about that, and therefore trying to align us with what we like. So always looking at everybody's things and, you know,

I got an email the other day from a company that did a really amazing founders selection and I thought we must do that. So I think the advice is don't be frightened, just sort of start mimicking the behaviours of others and you'll soon get on the wheel.

Pippa Goulden (33:25)
I think it's really important to stay in your own lane, isn't it? And not like be paralyzed by what other people are doing So not looking at what other people are doing and being like, god, they're so good But yeah be inspired get ideas and do that across industries as well And that's why within the PR set we don't have just product businesses or just service businesses or just b2b or just b2c because we can learn so much from the way that other People are doing things whatever business they're in and actually sometimes you can take things like

Pip Dawes (33:33)
Yeah, be inspired. Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (33:54)
if you were just doing things that was happening in the wine world you would stay the same as all the other wine brands whereas you you take your inspiration from all sorts of different places and that's what I think makes you a unique wine business.

Pip Dawes (34:08)
Well actually truthfully I can't look at other wine companies because it gives me the heebie-jeebies. I'm like, what are they doing? they're catching up. So I'm always not looking at them. I'm always focusing on brands I really like. I just, think from what I know about brands that I like is that they give you added value. You're always shopping because you don't always have the budget.

Pippa Goulden (34:13)
Hahaha

Pip Dawes (34:37)
but it is nice to check in with a brand and know that you can get something informative from them, such as a recipe or a nice blog to read or a discount code for another company. You know, I just think it's quite nice to continually give something back because if your customers are loyal, then they should be rewarded. And I'm always just thinking, would I like that? Yes, let's.

That's what we've always tried to do is to give back a bit, And I think if you haven't done any, then work on the basis of how can you reward your customers.

Pippa Goulden (35:18)
It's brand building isn't it? It's thinking long term rather than just month to month. And finally what is next for Marlo? I mean Christmas!

Pip Dawes (35:26)
Christmas. Yeah, but it's weird because it's all fulfilled. and hopefully an alright Christmas. mean, the market is weird, but we are merging our two brands. So that is huge. So in February, our two brands will become one. So our very traditional

Pippa Goulden (35:30)
Deep breaths.

Pip Dawes (35:47)
wine trading business, which has been based on a massively traditional model, is now going to become Marlo. And the reason we're doing that is to streamline from a logistical perspective, you know, all staff then can be involved, but also because we think people are changing the way that they drink. And so we believe that people

more and more want to lots of variety as opposed to they like this bordeaux, they're going to buy loads of it, they're going to put it in their cellar and they're going to keep it there for ages and bring it out on a special occasion. It's much more that people are shopping for the dinner party or shopping more short term than as a long term investment. So we want to be able to offer both and we feel that Marlo has a nice strong brand to carry us forward that way. So that's what

that's what we're working on at moment. It's massive because we're moving away from Shopify. I mean, the whole thing is a bit daunting.

Pippa Goulden (36:51)
it sounds amazing though and you know I can't wait to see what you do with this because you've done such a brilliant job over the last four years so yeah here is here's to the next however many. Thank you for coming on PR Made Simple and I will hopefully see you very soon in the membership but yeah thanks for sharing your wisdom with us it's been really insightful.

Pip Dawes (37:01)
As have you, by the way.

Yeah.

Thank you very much for inviting me on here.