Please note this transcript has been produced by AI - apologies for any mistakes!

Pippa Goulden (00:03)
Steph Douglas is the founder of thoughtful gifting company Don't Buy Her Flowers and is quite possibly the poster girl or goat as my children would say when it comes to being a female founder building her personal brand and getting known for what she does. Since she started her business in 2014 Steph has used a combination of DIY PR as well as working with PRs, myself included, to help position her business as a leading gifting business for both consumers and corporates alike.

Alongside this she has become known for talking and writing honestly about what she calls the rush hour. That time of life that so many of us are in juggling elderly parents, kids, work, partners, running businesses, being a good friend, trying to have a little bit of fun and everything that comes with all of that. I am sure so many of you relate, I know I certainly do. Stephen Don't Buy Her Flowers have been featured in pretty much every national newspaper.

on TV shows such as This Morning in Lorraine, the most women's lifestyle magazines, Grazia Stylist to name a few. She's been interviewed on numerous podcasts on industry stages. She's done some brilliant collaborations and influencer work. All of this while staying true to her business and who she is. I would say that Steph is a great example of someone who's done PR in a way that feels really authentic and genuine and living proof that you don't have to be someone you're not. In fact, with Steph, it's her honesty and ability.

to tell it how it is that I believe has helped her become so successful here. And I don't think I've ever told her this, but I actually use her as a case study in my PR course, which is available in my DIY PR membership as someone who's doing a totally brilliant job on their PR. So let's crack on and find out how she's done it. Welcome Steph Douglas to PR Made Simple. How are you?

Steph Douglas (01:45)
Hello Pippa, I am fine. I'm very happy to be here. A tiny bit, but yeah, no, it's good. Do you know what? My very first job was in PR. So it is, that probably helped because it's so I feel, you know, when you run a business and you've got to put on all the hats, but the bit I'm most comfortable in, I would say it's like the PR and the brand and marketing stuff, because that's what I did as a proper job.

Pippa Goulden (01:48)
Good good, was that really cringy listening to all of that?

Yeah I knew you had a background in marketing and I mean you can tell can't you because you know it's what obviously you're you're really aligned to. So to give, I've given people an insight into who you are and what you do but if there's one person out there who might not have heard of you can you explain a bit more about Don't Buy Her Flowers and the business and where you've come from.

Steph Douglas (02:26)
Yeah, so it will be 10 years in November since we started the business, since I started the business. I, it started as gifts for new moms. So I had my first baby in 2010 and I wasn't expecting anything particularly. And then a bouquet started arriving and I was like, something for me. This is the bit that's for me. You know, there'd be cuddly toys and stuff for the kids and blankets and whatever, but flowers kept coming.

And the first couple hours, I my God, wow, you and you feel all special. But actually in those first few weeks, you also feel completely overwhelmed, exhausted, leaky, like angry potentially, just like who the hell am I? What do I do? I've got no idea what I'm doing. And suddenly they felt like a real task. Like I had to put these in in a vase. didn't really have, I didn't have more than a couple of vases. And...

I was like, that's really weird. That's a really weird gift. It never crossed my mind before. And I probably, friends had, I didn't have lots of mates that had babies at that point, but I probably would have thought, yeah, that's what you do. It's like a real, that's a tradition. And that, I just was like, that doesn't really make any sense. And I didn't start the business until four years later. So I think in that time I had another baby, but also lots of friends were having babies and I would take something, I'd take food and leave it on their doorstep.

I'd send them a magazine in chocolate. And actually it was a friend, my friend Alex Tough. She sent me this lovely note back and it was like, my God, it was a care package. And our first package was called the care package. Cause that's what it was. It was some chocolate and a magazine and a note that just said, you're going to be great. It's going to be okay. I hope you're okay. That kind of thing. Because I know how much that meant to me when I had my first baby.

And that's what we were when we started. So I had a couple of packages. It was very much about new moms, gifts for new moms. And that, yeah, that's what was all about being thoughtful. what I underestimated was the emotional response that that would lead to, because we tapped into some empathy that people needed in that moment. And so people were crying when they opened their packages. So very quickly, I was like, God, this is...

more than I thought it was. And then we had customers saying, I want to send this to someone who's in hospital. I want to send this to someone for their birthday. Like, it doesn't really matter what's happened. We're all knackered. We're all, everyone's juggling something. So even if it's a celebration or whatever it is.

Pippa Goulden (04:55)
Yep.

Steph Douglas (05:01)
The idea of a gift that's thoughtful, that's going to offer you a bit of TLCs, it might be a really good book, it might be some cashmere socks and some chocolate, and they've thought about the chocolate that you like, so they've chosen white chocolate or they've chosen dark chocolate because they know that and each gift is put together by somebody and 70 % of our orders are bespoke. So we've got set packages and we've obviously put those together really carefully and you can still go, I'll have the vegan biscuits over the gluten -free or whatever.

But 70 % of people want to spend the time and the thoughtfulness of hand picking what they put in it. And that's great, because that means we're hitting something, because that's what it was meant to be, that thoughtfulness. And we didn't have that when we first started. was the more like sort of gifts that I'd put together, but we moved to have more of the bespoke stuff as well. So yeah, that's where we ended up.

Pippa Goulden (05:54)
I think.

and 10 years down the line. mean gosh that's very inspiring for lots of small business owners out there who are wading through the treacle and thinking am I ever going to get there? I know you've talked a lot about the business and don't buy flowers over the years but from a PR perspective how important has that been for you over the journey? Can you tell us about how you've approached it? Did you set out deliberately to do it? Obviously if you've had a background in PR that's probably something that maybe that's more strategic or has it happened more organically or a bit of both?

Steph Douglas (05:58)
Yeah

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah, think it's really, yeah, to me it's really important, but also it just gives you an opportunity to tell stories and put real messaging into it. And you can't do that in an ad. And because Don't Buy Her Flowers is about thoughtfulness and connection, it's so rich for PR. And actually most businesses are rich for PR, but people tend to not do it very well. But I think there's human connection in there, which people always want to hear about. And you've got all the reasons that people send their gifts. So it might be...

a new mum, it might be get well, might be diagnosis, bereavement, we work with stand up to cancer, get well, know, the vast like divorce, we've done, you know, this package is being sent for so many reasons. And all of those things have a lot of richness to them from a content point of view. And I think the other reason that PR was so critical, especially at the beginning was I didn't have any money. So I needed to do it myself and I needed to

to find a way to reach people that didn't cost me anything. So social media is an obvious one. But I think getting on other people's platforms and at the time at the beginning, like blogging was really popular. And actually before I started the business, I had a blog which I started kind of nine months before and that was almost my stepping stone to starting the business. That was my intro to it because it felt too much of a leap to just start a business. So I started the blog, but that...

led itself really well to PR because actually the customers we were talking to, they were interested in motherhood and relationships and this stuff that I was willing to write about. And they then, when I launched the business, they leapt on it because they were me, know, we're all the same people and they completely got it. And they felt seen because someone was talking about overwhelming motherhood and actually why would you want another thing to look after when you're doing like a ridiculous amount of caring? And that was the sort of crux behind the business idea.

So that was also PR really. And then you had all these writers and bloggers and people who were willing to have you on their blog or write about us in a gift guide or whatever that was. So yeah, really important.

Pippa Goulden (08:35)
Yeah and actually I think you were doing that weren't you at the kind of the same time of the rise of kind of Instagram and Instamoms and that kind of that world so I guess being able to tap into both of those areas from a media and a press perspective but also looking at kind of your network and working with people in that way was that important to you when you started?

Steph Douglas (08:43)
Mm. Mm.

Yeah, and also not just talking about product, because if I just talked about product, none of those people would like all those sort of all the mom influences and that kind of group and journalists as well. Like it's not of interest to talk about a product, but I was connecting with people about something that was very much the reason for my business, but it wasn't about.

product at all. In fact often I do interviews and I've not mentioned any product and I come away and think shit I should have said something about what we actually sell but but it's not because it isn't it almost doesn't matter like yes we've got to have really lovely products we work with British brands we've got to make sure the quality is really good the price is right you've got higher end items you've got low cut you know we work with lovely brands everything smells good if it's a smelly you know all of that the taste is good but

Pippa Goulden (09:24)
Whoops, key message!

Steph Douglas (09:45)
I have to make sure that that happens. The team have to make sure that happens, but that's not what the customers, that's almost like a given. The bit that they're really coming to us for is that emotional connection.

Pippa Goulden (09:56)
Yeah, and I guess that's from a brand building perspective, that's what's helped you build the brand, isn't it? It's not the product, it's the storytelling and the emotion that comes with it.

Steph Douglas (10:01)
Yeah.

And I think, again, my background is in brand, so I can see how important that is. But it's standing for something. It's not just a product, because otherwise everyone, like there's lots of other gift businesses. And hopefully some of what we've added to our offer, like you have a handwritten note, so the customer's message is handwritten. And things that I think are important and that people notice, and that's the feedback we've had, like making sure those things are...

are in there, but it still is more about what people are trying to say with that, where they've really thought about someone and they've put something together. it's like you're saying, I know that you're probably knackered or I know that you haven't given yourself a break and you really could do with a hot bath and a candle that smells amazing. And that's what the business is based on.

Pippa Goulden (10:59)
I love that. And has there been any particular kind of PR highlights for you? What do you think has the best impact for you? I mean, know TV has, you know, a lot of the holy grail.

Steph Douglas (11:06)
Mm.

TV is good if it's a good piece. We have had pieces that haven't been so good. I think we were on this morning once and we'd been on it a few times, but there was one where something went wrong with the previous product that they were looking at. I think it was something that was hung out of a box or something. So in the studio it was a bit chaotic and they were all really distracted and they were like, and then we come onto it they went onto it. So we're at home screaming, as you can see it, but they didn't really...

Pippa Goulden (11:15)
Okay.

Steph Douglas (11:36)
stop and look at it or talk about it, because they've taken up all the time with this, whatever it was before this gadget had gone wrong. And you'd say you're there, like waiting, like, this is it, we're going to absolutely smash it. But if you get it right, and the messaging's right, so how some of it is out of your hands, right? Like, obviously, you know this, because you've worked with us on it. we had, we were on Lorraine, the week of Mother's Day.

Pippa Goulden (11:55)
most of it is out of your hands.

Steph Douglas (12:03)
which was the day before we went into lockdown in March 2020. And we were on like the Wednesday or Thursday and it was suddenly after everyone had been joking about the elbow touching and all this thing coming from China. Suddenly that week it went up 10 notches and it was like, shit, this is something really serious is happening here. And people knew that they weren't gonna be able to go and see their mum that weekend.

And then we were on Lorraine in a Mother's Day slot and they did a really lovely piece and they showed the product and it all looked great and they talked about it. But so, and we thought, yeah, I mean, it went absolutely nuts from that point for about two years. We had this crazy growth, there is a, so TV great, but I think articles and stuff, you never know who's reading it. And that often is the thing that you'll get, will get mentioned like in parts of your chatting to someone and they'll say, I saw this thing. I read this thing about you. I read this thing about the business and

And like I said, you can get so much more messaging in there. We had a piece once that was about when Mark, my husband was diagnosed with cancer and where that kind of fit into our journey with the business. And we worked with Stand Up to Cancer and I knew Deborah James. And so that was really powerful actually, because again, it was like, it was quite a lot of copy and it was really going into our story. And we did something else we did with Stand Up to Cancer. came and filmed Doug and I telling our story.

And but in the context of also having a business where we do gifts for people who going through cancer or their families. so that again, it just had it's more meaning to it than here's some stuff in a box.

Pippa Goulden (13:41)
It's because it's storytelling, it's authentically genuine to everything that you've been through and that's what people connect to, don't they? That's what they want to, you want to read about it. I don't want to read an advert for a business, I want to read about stories and humans and you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

Steph Douglas (13:47)
Yeah.

And humans you can relate to, isn't it? Like I've got three kids, it's total chaos. I'd love to present a picture that didn't have my washing in the background and everything was beautiful, but I'm, I would take so much energy. I just don't have. And, and actually most of your customers are similar, aren't they? when there's, there's quite a group, I'd say in, in the UK and probably everywhere.

women running businesses and they have got money behind them and they've and they've come from, know, or they've got the support of maybe it's a partner or maybe it's family money or something. And they're at a different level. They don't. It's not. I'm not saying they're not working really hard, but they're in that environment already. Whereas my dad's a vicar and my mum's a nurse and I'd come into it without any kind of business background. And I think you can see that with people. It's sort of the way people talk and the way if they're talking about investment and whatever. And again, I think.

people buy from people, so you wanna see that.

Pippa Goulden (14:56)
Absolutely and I think that leads me nicely on to kind of talking about your personal brand. I mean that phrase is a bit yuck isn't it but you you've I think you start off with a blog like you mentioned and you've kind of you've raised your profile but in a way that's really authentic and genuine and you tell it how it is and the media love it you know I've worked with you we did that amazing piece in Grazia that kind of went bonkers twice twice because we did it.

Steph Douglas (15:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think we've ended up doing a few. Yeah.

Pippa Goulden (15:24)
And how have you navigated that in terms of what you talk about, how you put yourself out there, how you connect it back to the business? Because it could be quite easy, I guess, to build that profile and it be separate, but you've done it really in a way that's kind of intrinsically linked.

Steph Douglas (15:40)
Yeah, I think, I think there's a couple of things. So luckily, Mark has very thick skin and is really okay with me writing about relationships and motherhood. I would never could write about saying if I was putting him in a really bad light. But I think we have quite an honest relationship where we communicate about stuff and, you know, the daft things that happen and him mowing the lawn as a taxi arrives for us to go on holiday and all of those things. And I think when I had the blog before the business and you realize that

I love that feeling of writing something that connects with people. I absolutely love it. And I guess it is when you sort of the overarching theme is connection, whether it's the gifts or the writing or whatever it is, that's what I love doing. And I love getting that response back. And when someone goes, my God, I feel seen. my God, this is how I feel. Cause it makes me feel better as well from a purely selfish point of view, but it's just, it's a really lovely thing.

It's one of the nice parts of social media when you and it's not not to I wouldn't want to go and my life's a hardness all these awful things have happened, but it's just like it's just day -to -day stuff And I suppose our my customer is is a very similar probably most of them, you know in a very similar phase of life and Trying to juggle it all and everything so they relate to that and that helps build the brand So yeah, it feels really strategic, but it's it's kind of just

it happened in lots of ways. It happened that I sort of started writing and realized that I really loved it and was really lucky that I got the response that it did as well.

Pippa Goulden (17:14)
And I think also one of the things I've noticed about you without sounding like a total stalker is that you're really good at sticking to your guns and not being swayed by things. Like I think you've kept really true to kind of the direction you're going in.

Steph Douglas (17:27)
Mm.

Pippa Goulden (17:28)
there might be like a short term benefit for you doing something, but you know maybe long term it's not the right direction that you want to go into. How do you make decisions about which directions to go in or what to say yes and no to? Is it like a gut thing or is it something you sit down or talk to your team about or that kind of thing? Yeah.

Steph Douglas (17:45)
think a lot of it is gut, know, like I think we've lots of times we've been asked about going down the menopause route. And it's like, that's not something like that. And it's suddenly everywhere, isn't it? Which is a brilliant thing because it needs to be in women need to have those conversations. But is that really what don't buy? Does that fit with don't buy her flowers? Or if we're talking about the rush hour and the fact that you've got people have so much going on, you're kind of encompassing it anyway.

And I think it's the, I it's, I just don't want for people to look at it and feel like they're being force fed a brand or that it, or it's been shoehorned in. So if it feels like that for me, I'm not going to put it in. think probably my background of brand marketing means that I do look at things from outside perspective. I guess I always have a slight.

awareness of how does this look from the outside even if I feel very passionately or angrily or whatever about something does this make me sound like a spoiled brat or does this is this a problem that no one else has got or whatever that is so I think having that filter probably helps but you know a couple of times I've probably done things and then thought I feel a bit ick about that and then you don't want to do it again because it's not it's not worth it.

Pippa Goulden (18:56)
Yeah.

But you learn as you go, don't you as well? Like all of it's kind of bit of trial and error and throw a bit of mud at the wall and see what sticks.

Steph Douglas (19:08)
Mmm.

Yeah. And you do work out what, what works. also it depends how you're probably feeling in your personal life as well. Like sometimes you, I feel much more like I've got the head space to be chatty on Instagram, whatever. And often I don't cause I'm trying to juggle the kids in the business or I'm worrying about something. And then I've kind of, I would have used to still probably put content out, but I think now I'm like, do you know what? can't, I'd not going to do that because it, it doesn't. And I think it usually people can tell.

So I think you have to let yourself off a bit sometimes and go like, you don't have to be performing all the time as a business owner.

Pippa Goulden (19:52)
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And something that I've noticed that you do really well is you don't just focus on the big things, which I know like having had clients, and especially in the kind of big agency, big brand world, you know, they're all going after the big kind of pieces in the national papers, but or the TV. But you're really good at aligning yourself with other brands, with collaborations, with doing guest blog.

Steph Douglas (20:07)
Mm. Mm.

Pippa Goulden (20:15)
post interviews, that kind of thing. How important do you think that's been for you in terms of kind of keeping that trickle going and just keeping you visible?

Steph Douglas (20:23)
think it's really important, especially if you've been around for 10 years, because unless you have something really dynamic, new to say, or a new product all the time, you've done all the coverage, so you need a new angle. also, the stuff that you might work with micro -influencers who have a small -ish community, but they're really engaged.

So I don't think it matters. And do you know what? So when I said earlier about my background, my background's in regional PR. So I used to work in the Southwest region for government communications and, and local papers were read a lot more then, cause this is what 20 years ago. God, it is 20 years ago. But I know I went, but, so it was getting coverage. It was getting coverage for government departments in regional press and radio and everything in.

Pippa Goulden (21:03)
Shh. Don't think too much about it.

Steph Douglas (21:17)
I really liked it because actually you can, you're probably more likely to get a story that you want out of that because they're looking for content, they're trying to fill a paper every day and you've got, as long as you've got that local angle, you've got it. And so I think it's important. And also I really like talking to other business owners, like having conversation with you. I just think otherwise you've only got the same voices across the same platforms and it's really narrow.

Pippa Goulden (21:46)
Yeah, I agree.

Steph Douglas (21:46)
And to be honest as well, it's not costing you loads, then it's great. I think it's different if you're paying a PR agency and you're getting just these tiny little tip bits, then you have to kind of go, do I need them to do this? Or could I do this myself? Because you're paying someone when you want the big stuff, aren't you?

Pippa Goulden (22:00)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And actually that's a really valid point that you can do it yourself, can't you? There's going to be different points in every business's journey where you do outsource. How do you make that decision as a business owner? When do you say, okay, I'm ready to outsource it or, okay, it's time to take it in -house, but I'm going to focus on it, I'm going to make it a priority. How do you get that balance?

Steph Douglas (22:09)
Mm.

think it's really hard because as you know, PR is never guaranteed. So it's really difficult. if you're running a really tight budget and like we've gone through different phases where we were absolutely booming and then there's been other times where it's been more difficult financially. So that affects decisions you make. But I think the big learning for me from that is that if you get stuck in a retainer and you're paying, you know, probably quite a chunk a month,

Pippa Goulden (22:28)
Yeah.

Steph Douglas (22:54)
getting that return on investment and being able to ensure that that continues is really difficult. Because just like I said earlier, there's only so many ways you can cut your brand, right? Or you can tell your story and there's only so many outlets. So it's unlikely that you can have a booming like massive piece of PR every month. And I think that's what you want, isn't it? Because then that's what you're driving for, but it's not likely that that's going to happen.

Pippa Goulden (23:20)
Yeah, I think it depends on the business. I've got a couple of clients where I do work with them on an annual...

retain is probably a strong word but you know because they have lots going on through the year so there's lots of new things to talk about but like with you and other clients I love working on projects I generally will favor a project because I can do three to four months where we go out kind of all guns blazing and we'll pick out those really relevant stories and it will give you that big boost that you're kind of looking for but it doesn't make us all sit there going what's happening you know I can't work with clients anymore where I'm panicking about you know what what I'm going to deliver yeah

Steph Douglas (23:47)
Yeah.

You haven't got a piece of coverage. Yeah. Well, and you're going out to the same, like it might be like, we've got another idea and we're going out to the same people. think we've struggled with it a little bit sometimes where, yes, like PR agencies looking for newness and it's like, can you launch another thing? you, and it's like, the core is that thoughtfulness piece. So you can have new products in that, but the actual core idea is the same and the reasons are the same.

Pippa Goulden (23:59)
I haven't got anything, what do I do?

Steph Douglas (24:27)
And so that's quite difficult, I think sometimes because, you know, or it was like, can you, can you send the other one is I know you're going to ask about influencers, but can we send gifts to influencers? Like, well, are we're not like a t -shirt or a new mascara and where, where you send something to an influencer, they post a picture of it and then goes, wow, that's an amazing product. I'm going to buy it. You're waiting for someone to, they need to be looking for a gift, but also because it's about that emotional connection, you need.

Pippa Goulden (24:30)
Yeah.

Steph Douglas (24:56)
if someone receives a box and is like, my God, this was amazing. That's the sell. That's the advertising for you. So it doesn't work if you've got influencers who have loads of stuff sent to them all the time and then they just get another box unless they happen to be going through something really awful and you're sending it to them for that reason. So I think a really good example of that is Sarah Turner, who's the mumsy mum, who has a ridiculously massive following and has done for years. But I used to...

blog with similar times with her and she wants, I'd messaged her and we were getting to know each other and I said, do you have anyone that you'd like to send a package to? So rather than send her a package, I do you have anyone you'd like to send a package to? And she was like, my best mate lives in, I think London or Brighton and she was in Exeter and she's like, my best mate's about to have a baby and I feel really weird that I'm not around the corner. I'd love to send her something. I said, okay, when time comes, let me know, we'll send her a gift from you and.

see how it goes. So I wasn't, there was no obligation. I wasn't saying you have to post about this and here's an exchange of cash or whatever. And actually it ended up that her friend received, sent her a text like, my God, this was so wonderful. I'm crying. I really miss you. And Sarah posted it on Facebook. And at the time she had about half a million followers. And I think, I don't know what she's got now. mean, yeah, bonkers. And it went nuts.

I happened to be in Wales on holiday with my family and was like, shit, I haven't got any product. At the time I was packing boxes in my spare room because we hadn't been going that long. And I was having to get a flapjack delivered to my neighbour. But the point was that it was the influencer, but it was with the meaning to it because otherwise...

Pippa Goulden (26:38)
Yeah, it was authentic.

Steph Douglas (26:40)
Well, and I don't, there was a phase where I think influencers could receive something they posted about and that brand would do really well out of it. But now I think there was definitely a backlash in the last few years where as a consumer, I don't want to see somebody get another bloody thing. You know, you just think, good for you. You've got another car or whatever. It doesn't make people feel good about your brand.

Pippa Goulden (26:54)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think, no, but I think again, that's what you've done really, like genuinely, you've...

teamed up and done curated boxes with influencers or authors or people with know people with books coming out for example because it feels much more of a real thing than someone going I've got this box from Steph and it's really lovely like you know that's not going to do much for you so yeah again the way that you approach influencer marketing is really interesting from that perspective because it's about the it's about the brand and the business at the core of it and and and living those values.

Steph Douglas (27:10)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think there's loads of ways to do that. And I think if you've got a product, you've just got to look at who would genuinely want that product or use that product rather than, look, that person's got 500 ,000 followers. Let's quickly send them something. Because you want them to, if they authentically say, my God, I love this. We had a great, it was Elizabeth Day, and this was a few years ago, so she wasn't as massive as she is now, but she's a customer.

And she put us in her column in You magazine at the time, like, cause it was a what's hot, what's not. And we were in the what's hot. And I didn't know, I hadn't even spotted that she'd bought a package and it was like gifts, to new moms, love this brand, don't buy her flowers, whatever. So was, it was a genuine, and then we went on to do some work with her where she was launching a book and we contacted her and the publishers and we did some packages for VIPs that she was sending out. Like, so it's starting it as something that feels like an actual.

relationship of some description that's not weird, that's not just someone going I'm going to get... because actually as well I don't think influencers always feel that comfortable being given the free stuff. There comes a time when you're like god I don't like this or I don't need this or I don't want this and now I've got to post about it and so you don't you want it to feel reciprocal.

Pippa Goulden (28:32)
Yeah.

Yeah, speaking about influences, can we just touch on Fishfinger Gate? I know it was a really long time ago but it is still one of those things, I mean I remember it happening in the office and we were like, was just, go tell tell everyone about it if they don't remember.

Steph Douglas (28:53)
Yes, we can. It was so good. I do.

Well, so I keep my phone downstairs of a morning, like overnight, and I came downstairs and said this, think it was 2017. Right, because I think I was pregnant with Frank. And I came downstairs and my phone was just pinging and buzzing and going absolutely mental. And there was an article in the Daily Mail, proper in the paper article. Do you know the headline? Because I can't remember what it was.

Pippa Goulden (29:13)
Yeah was, I was researching it yesterday.

I was looking at it yesterday, was slummy mummies and it was like these mums think it's okay to and feed them fish finger whatever it was.

Steph Douglas (29:32)
A scum, it's something about slummy mummies, that was it. To slag off their kids, drink gin. Yeah, frozen fish fingers, because someone had written an article and joked about frozen tapas or something. Yeah, and it was me, it was the old mumsy mum. I think it was Katie Kirby at her offer gin. Clemmie Telford and the scummy mummies got a mention as well. And there's pictures of us, like they'd gone to our Instagram and found these big like.

Pippa Goulden (29:46)
yeah, fridge tapas.

Yeah.

Steph Douglas (30:02)
really obvious like it wasn't like you'd look at it goes that you it was definitely me and all the people and it just was like so it's literally gone through my blogs vicar's daughter yeah vicar's daughter and that i'd and something about i'm one of the blogs i'd written i talked about a roudung and i had and was a really popular blog about like relationships and how tough it can be and they

Pippa Goulden (30:08)
They mentioned you referencing your adult headaches. Vicka's daughter with adult headaches.

Steph Douglas (30:25)
said about me, I'd said I went and like left the house and stormed out and stood on the corner and smoked ten mobile lights or something and that got mentioned because obviously as a vicar's daughter I was a smoker, I this awful, I know but what was then hilarious was that the community between us we all had, I mean mine wasn't as big as theirs, we all had these big followings and communities.

Pippa Goulden (30:35)
Disgraceful.

Steph Douglas (30:48)
And they all went absolutely mental sharing the piece disgusted these women stand up for us. it was, and even the head teacher of my kid's school said, I saw that article and she was like, good for you. She said, I, my kids who are a bit older than my, like she was from, I guess it's from previous generation. She was like, we used to worry so much about how the house looked if people came over and it was all so hard because you're hiding this that you actually were finding it tough. She said, I love that you guys are talking about this. And it was like.

what like everybody it felt anyway it wasn't but it felt like everyone had seen it and we ended up we got sent gin and fish fingers which was obviously I came home and talking the kids had this massive hamper open of gin and fish fingers so they thought it was great and then we ended up doing an ad for bird's eye which was beautiful but from bird's eye it was such a clever they got us in it yeah

Pippa Goulden (31:36)
It was so good. I remember following it all thinking I wish I was involved with this in some way. The way that you all responded to it and the way that the brand people at Fishfingers, what's the Fishfinger company? Bird's Eye. The way that they responded to it, was just, yeah, it was really well done.

Steph Douglas (31:51)
Bird's eye. Yeah, yeah.

It was really clever, but it was really nice because none of us were on our own. we all knew. And also the people that they'd kind of picked on, none of us slag our kids off. Like I know all of those women and I know that they adore their kids. They also have found it hard. And then they've made a living with some of them out of talking about how funny it is and usually taking the piss out themselves rather than being awful. So yeah, that went totally backfired. But I mean, well, it didn't because the Daily Mail probably got a lot of clicks on that, but it was a lovely.

Pippa Goulden (32:00)
Yeah.

No.

Yeah, totally.

Steph Douglas (32:25)
I think I got sent jewellery that had a slogan on and it was all about solidarity that was it. The phrase was about solidarity, it's about TEA. that is funny to remember that.

Pippa Goulden (32:31)
that's right.

I love it. I know, I know it is really a long time ago, but it just shows, doesn't it? know, from a news agenda perspective, it's like jumping onto stuff and being, you know, ready and relevant as and when. did they? Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. It's great. Really good. And I mean, this isn't PR, but I think, you know, the way that you've evolved the business has been really...

Steph Douglas (32:47)
I think birds I won an award for that ad. Yeah, for the campaign something. Yeah

Pippa Goulden (33:00)
interesting to watch as well. So you've gone from kind of the consumer offering, tell us a bit more about how you've done that because I think it's quite inspirational for other small business owners out there.

Steph Douglas (33:06)
Mm.

So I think that again, in terms of learnings from the last couple of years, like coming out of COVID, everyone was talking about how online shopping was going to continue on that trajectory, which had been ridiculous. And it didn't. So a lot of businesses like mine had had like the, obviously you have businesses who really struggled in that period, and then you have businesses who had flown. And so you've then got the cost base has gone up and your team has grown and you've got operationally, you're set for great things. And then orders were suddenly quieter.

And there was a cost of living crisis, there was energy crisis, was fuck ups going on in government with budget announcements. Like it just was all, could just see it on the traffic, like the impact that has. And we're seeing at the moment that the traffic is looking better because people are having slightly positive. So hopefully that's heading in the right way. But it was like, so what are we going to do? And during COVID, we'd really seen a growth in corporate giftings of workplaces, especially because of hybrid working, people working from home.

So HR departments, marketing departments going, we need to communicate with our employees and we need to be talking about the brand or making them feel something for this brand that they're not even in an office with sometimes. And so we'd seen that grow and it was like, I think this is an area that we could really focus on. And I think we've grown it something like 700 % in the last year and Christmas is looking really good. So rather than relying on B2C, that's been my...

massive lesson from it because it really I had one source of revenue and that was B2C through the website and now we've got B2C and the corporate gifting has really grown and actually one in I think it's actually higher than this but one in 13 orders through the website is a corporate order it's someone ordering for someone on a team or something like that so you've got this pipeline from the B2C that feeds into the B2B because we then can contact them and say I'd love to talk to you about other gifting blah blah blah so that's

And it's something that feels more in our control. Like you can go, and it's effectively sales, but you can go after that market and it doesn't cost you in the same way that advertising to B2C has done, which again has gone up in price in the last couple of years, PPC and things like that. And then the other area that we, again, like what can we control? What revenue can we bring in within? I've got this team, I've got this warehouse. And we started over a year ago working, doing fulfillment for another small business. And that we've now got.

six or seven clients, we've got one polar post who we're working with for Christmas. So everyone's very excited because we're doing, we're basically being Santa. yeah, and so we've got, we've, and that, that through those brands that we're working with, that's, it's another revenue stream and it's predictable because a lot of them, it is every month. So we're doing their fulfillment from our team. So, so it is, it means that the team have kind of diversified, we've diversified, but actually

Pippa Goulden (35:40)
that's so cute!

Steph Douglas (36:04)
as a business, it's going to make us much stronger because you've got the B2C side is still growing. We're back into growth. You've got the corporate side of things and you've got the fulfillment side of things. It's just making sure all three of those are going. And if everything can kind of continue, then we're in a strong position again. So yeah.

Pippa Goulden (36:20)
Amazing. And I guess having those new revenue streams and new areas of the business, it gives you new stories to tell, new conversations to be having, know, new audiences to tap into. Yeah.

Steph Douglas (36:28)
Yeah. And it, and it does all still feed into what we do. Like the point is that Don't Buy Her Flowers is about bespoke and thoughtful gifting and the team are thoughtful and we, they know how to do bespoke gifting and bespoke packing. And actually a lot of our clients had problems working with other fulfillment companies who didn't get that. They're not seeing them as a human who's desperately trying to run a business and whose customers are human and they want the package to arrive in the right packaging and not.

you know, like a massive Amazon box with a tiny thing inside. And so we treat that as that's about thoughtfulness still. actually, think our clients, the feedback has been amazing. And I can't take the credit for that because I'm not doing that. I'm not operationally kind of day to day, but Pam and Chas in the warehouse and the team, they're working really hard and they care because

They know, they work with me, a founder, and they know how important each sale is. So they're now doing that for other people as well, which is, which is great. And I think we've probably got room for another couple of clients come January, but we've added them incrementally, like rather than blow it up. And it's never been the plan to grow that to some massive scale, but it's like, okay, let's add it slowly. And we've learned so much in the last year doing that for the people as well.

Pippa Goulden (37:26)
Yeah.

Yeah, amazing. also, it's, you know, a lot of the small businesses I work with are torn between the amount of time that they spend doing the fulfillment and then working on the business. And it's kind of the pull, isn't it? And, you know, yeah, no, yeah.

Steph Douglas (37:54)
And there's a tipping point where it does not make any sense for you to be packing your own stuff. I mean, we do it because it's bespoke and the handwritten notes and everything else, but we're making it work now by doing it for other people as well. So that uses the space.

Pippa Goulden (38:06)
Yeah, that makes sense. And from a mindset perspective, so when I'm working in my DIYP membership and my one -to -one kind of so, you know, people who are doing it for themselves, I think 90 % of what holds people back is kind of up here and, you know, it's the overthinking, the thinking for other people. How have you navigated that? Because we've all experienced it, haven't we? Like, you can't be immune to that. How do you get over that and how do you just crack on with it?

Steph Douglas (38:32)
We definitely have periods where we've been lost. think it's like the last couple of, like now I feel like we're on track and we all know what we're doing. But I'd say like a couple of years ago, 18 months ago, it's got floundering around going, God, I don't know what the answer is. I think it's really difficult if you're running a business because you're in also in all the detail and you don't want to be, so you're trying to pull yourself out. But then if it's, if you're going through something difficult, you're back in it, you're back in all the detail.

I think we had a consultant actually, Fee, who came and kind of looked at everything and helped us to get refocused. And it wasn't that we needed to dramatically change anything. It was just a refocusing. It's like, why are you wasting time over here? These, you know, and again, sometimes you feel like you've got to lots of newness. So you're kind of going, it's grandparents day. We should be doing something for them. Or, you know, it's like, that's not our core. Our core is about thoughtfulness.

We know the reasons that our customers, there's lots of other reasons that people gift and we get some of those customers as well. But until you've absolutely nailed care packages, you you don't need to be doing all these other things or spending loads of time and money on it. And that's quite hard because I think, and actually what what Fee said at the time, she was like, to you, and this is probably really relevant to most of your listeners.

you've been doing this for a long time, you know all the messaging, you've heard it 50 million times, but your customers haven't. So actually you've got to be able to keep repeating the same thing, rinse and repeat, you've got to say the same thing, you don't have to be saying it in a different way each time. And that's, yeah, that's hard because you're like, it's so boring, we've done this. And it's like, no, it's not, it's your core.

Pippa Goulden (39:59)
Totally.

keep saying it over and over again because you're the only person that hears and sees everything that you put out there aren't you so no one else is yeah

Steph Douglas (40:18)
Yeah, I'm bored of my own voice, yeah, they're desperate for it. No, no, I mean, I'm sure lots of people are very bored of my voice too, but no, I think that's a really important focus. Just stay having that focus.

Pippa Goulden (40:32)
Yeah and what would you say to small business owners who kind of want to do PR but maybe feeling apprehensive nervous they're worried about what people might think of them or worried about putting themselves out there?

Steph Douglas (40:43)
you're going to be the best person to do it initially, I'd say. And also you'll learn a lot about what does and doesn't work. So I think it's really important. I used to feel so nervous contacting journalists, so nervous and think they don't want to hear from me. Why would they want to hear from me? They hate it. They hate my product. They think it's rubbish. And actually now, because I've known, you know, we're more well known, quite often I'll contact someone and they'll come back and go, I love your brand. I used it last year or I used it recently, whatever.

And you're like, that feels much nicer, but you just have to go through that pain at the beginning. And if you're, if you really believe in your product, which you will do if it's your business or your service or whatever it is, you have to be able to sell it. Like that's just basic, isn't it? You have to and push aside what feels really uncomfortable.

Pippa Goulden (41:31)
I love that. And one last question, if you could bust a PR myth for us, what do you think is something that people out there need to know? You know, there's so many things that people think about PR that aren't true. Is there anything that springs to mind?

Steph Douglas (41:44)
god. PR myths. I don't know, but the way that people record PR coverage is always quite hilarious. What's it called again when they go like, you're averaging, you're average.

Pippa Goulden (41:55)
Ha ha.

Yeah, what are your, the average advertising equivalent is X, Y, Z. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you've had 27 ,000 people, million people have seen this. It's like, no.

Steph Douglas (42:05)
Yes! Yeah. And you go, it equates to 80 billion and you're like hang on a minute.

I suppose the way that that relates back to talking to your audience is like to think about where you want to get seen, like where's gonna actually make a difference to you because otherwise, especially if you are paying someone else to do it, if they're kind of going, we can get this piece of coverage and you're thinking, I don't think that's what anybody's reading or, then you know who your customer is and where they're likely to find you. And I think that's probably pretty important because otherwise you're spending time and money that you haven't got.

Pippa Goulden (42:22)
Yeah.

Mm.

I think that's a really good piece of advice. always say that. I think it's important for businesses. I mean, it depends what your business is. You're not always your target audience. So I was with someone last week and she said, I never read that magazine. And I was like, but I know your audience is reading that magazine. So dive in and have a look at where and how your business could be featured. But yeah, really knowing that, and that's what every marketer says, isn't it? Must get really boring for small business owners to understand your audience. But really, it's true. It is true.

Steph Douglas (42:53)
Mm -mm.

Yeah, yeah.

No, but it's true. Yeah, and sometimes you forget as well or you start, yeah, yeah, or you're diversifying and you're going off and going, like for us, when I mentioned grandparents earlier, it's like, that's not who my core is. So I could spend loads of time and energy that, but I'm not, it's not going to drive massive sales and turn them into business into a totally different business.

Pippa Goulden (43:17)
Yeah you go off in a... yeah yeah

Yeah, so interesting. Well I cannot wait to see what you do over the next 10 years, Steph. Or just to Christmas, maybe we'll just take it to Christmas. It certainly does. Thank you so much for coming on and supporting me. I did my PR, my PR, my podcast. Yeah, it's so nice to see you and we'll see you soon. Bye.

Steph Douglas (43:36)
thank god. Yeah, at the moment it's just all roads lead to Christmas, that's it.

Thank you Pippa, well done on getting started. You've done it. End you. Take care.